Doubling Stocks — Marl the Magical Robot
November 30th, 2007   by StockGumshoe|       |
OK, so this is not something in which I am an expert — and it’s not the kind of stock teaser I usually like to look at, because the service has nothing to do with company fundamentals or interesting stories or profits or price/sales ratios or new products or FDA approvals or fast-growing economies or any of that stuff that actually makes sense to me.
No, this is an ad for technical analysis software — and I can almost guarantee that you’ve seen the ads, they have been marketing their system very aggressively lately, and the ads have certainly been showing up on the Google ads on this site along with nearly every other finance site I’ve visited in recent weeks. They’re also really pushing their campaign to webmasters, so I’ve been sent lots of teasers to join their affiliate program and push their service myself (I have not done so, though the ads are often on my site thanks to Google).
They even have a cutesy little robot adorning their website, and a nice backstory about a computer programmer who worked for Goldman Sachs and then later had a brilliant idea for technical analysis software.
And frankly, I’m not sure if there’s anything of value that I can share with you about this service — but I will share my opinion. I would not be writing about this at all, but I have had huge numbers of readers send me notes asking whether I like the service, or understand it, or think it’s legit or a scam, and I thought it would be easier to talk to everyone at once here. My off the cuff answers, by the way, are, “no”, “no”, and “maybe, I dunno.”
So what do I think? Keeping in mind that I have not tried the service, even the free trial.
Well, I have a fundamental distrust of all quantitative and automatic stock picking systems — even though I’m quite certain that some of them probably work, and many big investors have quant systems that clearly work well for them (though not always, especially when too many of them try to run the same system at the same time). But I am not a technical analysis guy or a quant, or a short term trader or chart watcher of any kind, and I find it very hard to take the claims of stock picking software systems like this seriously.
Quantitative stock picking runs the gamut, there are many more theories and systems than any of us could possibly understand. You get folks like Navellier, who has a system that clearly works fairly well in many markets as long as you are disciplined and stay diversified, but his relies on quantitative analysis of fundamental factors to pick growth companies for relatively long holding periods, for the most part. Much different than the stock picking robot here.
And you have hedge funds that ply inefficiencies and temporary mispricings in the market — also more or less math based, and sometimes successful — as with some famous examples like James Simon’s Renaissance Technologies, which itself has also had some bad patches when quant funds got snookered by the unpredictability of the market.
Essentially, I think anyone who invests in a black box investing formula is probably asking for trouble, but that’s just me. Not necessarily the consensus view.
But my concern about Doubling Stocks runs a little bit deeper than just a general distrust of quantitative systems like this. My main concern is that we’re talking about a system that tracks only pink sheet and OTC stocks, which are almost by definition extremely small cap stocks that often have light volume, and that can be dramatically moved by a single newsletter recommendation or any other kind of similar impulse.
If you have a few thousand investors waiting to hear your recommendations, saying that you can predict a short term move in an extremely illiquid stock like these is like walking around the dog park with a sealed bag of meat and saying you can predict when the dogs are going to jump on you … all you do is say “now”, open the bag, and you’re right.
The example they give in the video on their website is Healthsonix, HSXI.PK — it was at around 13 cents on October 30 and jumped to a bit over 26 cents on the open on October 31, if I remember the video correctly. They jump through several hoops on the video to make it clear that they’re not cheating on the dates, which is just silly — if they want to cheat, they’re dealing with a historical example so it’s abundantly easy to do so. For what it’s worth, I expect this is a genuine example of their “system” at work.
So I worry that for stocks like this, it is extremely hard to tell when a recommender is really finding chart patterns that predict a huge pop the next morning — something I really am hesitant to believe — and when it is the recommender himself who is causing the pop.
Think about it: If a recommendation service has 3,000 subscribers, and the stock is a very light trader (HSXI traded just 3,000 shares today at 13 cents, according to Yahoo Finance, though that’s way below average), it is not at all unlikely that if they recommend the stock in the evening, it’s going to at least double the next morning. There will be enough readers who want to buy and place their market orders at the open that it wouldn’t be at all surprising for the stock to shoot from 13 cents to 26 cents almost immediately on the market opening, as this one did.
But … it strikes me that you’d better be nimble and get out before the Doubling Stocks enthusiasts move on, because there’s not a big natural market of folks who are otherwise interested in taking shares of these stocks of your hands. Even if today’s 3,000 share trade is an anomaly, the 3 month average of HSXI is 188,000 shares, which means only about $24,000 worth of the shares change hands on an average day. Any service with any number of subscribers could scare up a lot more than that amount of money flow any day of the week if they wanted to.
I imagine that these Doubling Stocks guys must also tell you when to get out, and fairly quickly — the shares held a gain for a week or two, but HSXI.PK today is right back where it was before “Marl” got on the case on October 30, just about 13 cents. The party has moved on.
I know nothing about how they pick stocks, and I haven’t scoured their list of past recommendations and successes that they claim in their ads. I simply know that this kind of thing — using technical analysis techniques for very short term trades on microcap, easily manipulated stocks — is absolutely something I’m not interested in. I’m not saying they manipulate these stocks, or that they intend to use their subscribers to manipulate them, I’m just saying these kinds of low volume, unlisted investments are extremely vulnerable to price movements that have nothing to do with either technical or fundamental analysis as most investors understand those terms. If I’m going to bet on something I don’t understand, I’ll go to Vegas — at least they’ll ply me with free drinks.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but if the system was this good and accurate a predictor of stock movements, why $50? Why the guaranteed money-back trial? Could it be that the system works best when lots and lots of people cycle through the program and buy these stocks on Marl’s recommendation? Or is that too cynical? I’m just wondering …
So there you have it — I’m not a math expert and I haven’t seen the program behind their special stock picking robot, “Marl” … I can’t tell you if their quantitative system holds water, or whether or not they have your best interests at heart. I can just tell you I don’t trust it, personally, and their claims and the market they choose to operate in make me suspicious. And if you read the disclaimer and note that they are paid by many of the companies they “choose,” I hope you’ll be even more suspicious.
Oh, and the “there are only 14 slots left for this service before we have to close it down” bit? That may well be a bald-faced lie, but it’s one that almost all newsletter providers trot out from time to time, and I have yet to hear about someone trying to sign up for an advisory service or a newsletter who was told, “Sorry, we’re full, your money’s no good here.” If you have had this experience, please let me know — I’d love to hear that someone is honest about this little trick that they appear to use to spur you to sign up, quick, before you let your logical brain have a moment with what you’re being sold.
And if anyone has tried this “doubling stocks” service, I’d be very interested to hear what you think. It’s quite possible that I’m way off base.
So … sorry for the side trip down an odd alley. Back to sleuthing out interesting (or not) teaser stocks next time. Have a great weekend, everyone!
The author will always disclose any direct long or short equity, debt or option position in any stocks written about as of the day of publication, and will not trade in any stocks mentioned for three days (72 hours) after publication. Full disclaimer is at the bottom of the page.
More Gumshoe goodness:- What’s up with PromoStockPicks.com?
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- Untapped Wealth Pushes the Envelope … in a bad way
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November 30th, 2007 at 4:00 am
Some how I ended up on their mailing list without paying. I think they neglected to remove me from the free trial. Every week or so they send a recommendation which “will go through the roof tomorrow”. As you note it usually does, however, it often gaps open and then falls like a stone. Of the 16 recommendations that I have tracked it would have been possible to make money on two, but only if you also got out fairly quickly, say within an hour or so. They do not specify entry or exit points, just “buy right away, it is going up”.
I have not acted on any of their recommendations and do not intend to.
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November 30th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Sounds like you could short into the strength a bit after the open and cover later in the day or the following day. How quickly do the recommendations pull back?
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November 30th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
To Anonymous, I am not sure you can short the pinks; check with your broker. I used the free trial and track the recommends. One of them made just enough to cover about a third of the losses from the others. It doesn’t jive with their 80% accuracy claim IMHO.
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November 30th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
The ad for the robot system has been appearing on the Gumshoe page for several days now. Marl seems to be one of the most popular affiliate marketing sites on Clickbank just now …
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November 30th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I think it is a pump and dump scam. I subscribed and watched “Michael’s” (if that is his real name) picks using “MARL” (aka the stock robot) for several weeks. I noticed several fishy things. One was that there always seemed to be an outlier large volume purchase of shares within about 1-2 week’s time before his announcements, which he always published after market close. He must have a pretty hefty subscriber base because the opening price the next day always jumped significantly higher than the previous close (like $0.10 on a $0.50 stock). I think he picks up a few 100K shares, pumps/advertises the stock to his subscribers (sometimes for over a week before revealing the pick, saying he’s “waiting for the right entry point”), and then dumps his shares to his subscribers on the initial climb. In almost every case the stock comes back down to its original level after a few days/weeks. They are low volume stocks, so the people left holding shares at the end are stuck. I got my subscription fees back by complaining through ClickBank.
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November 30th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
I actually, just out of curiosity and boredom, plan to sign up for their free service and paper trade it for a few weeks. I will post my findings as soon as I have some.
StockGumShoe, thanks for posting your thoughts on this. This is one of the most entertaining sites on the web.
–ryan
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November 30th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Since we are on this subject, has anyone tried any “stock picking” service that are worth the fees (Like Vector Vest)?
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November 30th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
doubling stocks is a scam. I joined and they sent me two recs and then stopped sending. they have not responded to my email to get my $$ back, and there was a guarantee.
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November 30th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
this site is excellent. i love it.
this helps to eliminate so much “noise” from the investing system.
in my opinion DOUBLINGSTOCKS is a
classic PUMP and DUMP. they release the newsletters 1 hour after market hours when “someone” has bought huge and then advise everyone to buy the next morning. then “someone” sells/shorts and robs every newsletter investor.
this is usually an excellent stock to short 1-2 hours the next morning
after the newsletter release. BUSTED! currently being investigated by the SEC.
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December 1st, 2007 at 12:47 am
re: Vector Vest–
I signed up about a year ago.. I think this is a great service, BUT there is simply way too much info there (ie.. how many ways are there to pick a stock). They had way to much info for me. I simply don’t have the time… so I ended up cancelling… However, I feel it is a great site for those who have the time to use it properly.. and you can get a 5 wk trial for $9.95… One year is about $500.
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December 1st, 2007 at 12:59 am
I had to join. The reason is I too believe in fundamental and technical analysis. I have traded this way for some time and I am convinced. I dont have the ability yet to scan enough stocks to select the right targets unless I can find software. On last sundays pick, the stock had excellent fundamentals and traded technically that confirmed the trend(an observable pattern,three points of contact on a straight line}. Trend confirmation on a high volume stock typically results in a pop.Yes, that many people trade technically,and I am one.The selloff that occured after the pop was profit taking. If you dont understand the technical basis of trading, your natural instinct is to be distrusting, particularly if you are a long term investor,wed solely to long term fundamental thinking as the only way to make money.There are many ways to skin a cat. GI
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December 1st, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Let me give an example of technical analysis.Two parameters i use are bollanger bands and macd{moving average convergence divergence}.Look at the charts on wwat and wgpwf.Notice on a one year chart,the stocks are trading on an uptrend at about a 45 degree angle. Both stocks are increasing in value in an orderly fashion.The chart tells you that buyers are willing to pay more for the stock because of perceived fair market value. With bollanger bands, they measure the traded price in realtion to the moving averages.When the stock price touches the top band or exceeds it, the price is at or beyond two standard devations of its moving average and tends to retrace. When price action touches or exceeds the lower band,it tends to go back up. When moving averages concerge or diverge, the tend to signal trend changes.Purchasing a stock when the price touches the trend line is a buypoint that wont go lower if the trend continues. Combine these with fundamentals and you become a fair predicter of future price movement.Not an exact science,but fairly reliable and they help find entry levels and sell points. Before you blow this off as BS, give it try. It lets you back test the markets.GI
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December 1st, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Thanks for the comments, everyone — I don’t believe that technical analysis or quantitative systems are all BS, I’m just more skeptical of them, especially “black box” systems in which people claim to have a miraculous system. And personally, I’d much rather invest in compamies than trade ticker symbols — doesn’t mean that things I don’t like are wrong or BS.
That’s completely aside from the main concern with the Doubling Stocks system in particular, which is that they’re dealing with low volume penny stocks that I believe will almost always react much more to the sudden buys from a big subscriber base than they would to any kind of chart movements or quantitative indicators.
Think of it thi way: If they had no subscribers and just themselves identified stocks without buying them or telling anyone else to buy them, would these stocks jump 30, 40, or 100% the morning after they recommend them?
Cheers,
SG
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December 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 am
MARL and Doubling Stocks is bascially a pump and dump stock scam run buy a slick promoter.
I tried to recover my my subscription fee , but I was forced to file a comlaint with my credit card company to recover my money. Hopefully I am successful. I would not recommend anyone waste money on this Hoax.
The best service I have used and one which I am currently a subscriber of is http://www.intelligentvalue.com run by an HONEST man …..Mr Christopher Michaels.
Fee is $295 / yr and worth every penny . I AM making money with his Fibonacci-Value Portfolio. It only has 5-6 quality stocks, is adjusted weekly, and $10,000 placed into it at its inception on May 16, 2006 is currently worth as of 11/30/2007 $59825.60. nothing is left to chance Mr Michaels does it all …….as they say ……..Check it out. I am not compensated in any way for this mention ……I am just a very happy subscriber.
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December 2nd, 2007 at 1:04 am
While I understand your concerns about doubling stocks,Iwont speculate on the predicted price movemnt unless I had evidence. This depends upon whether you have a long term investor mentality or try to understand day trade techniques. The big boys{including arbitragers and hedge funds}use technical analysis in similiar fashion to my description. Successful traders cannot operate on long term concepts. Forex{banks}and commodity traders swear by technical analysis and would lose their shirts without it. My understanding of marl is it uses a variety of technical factors including volume,trend. channel,and fundamental analysis to scan and predict future price movement. SOFTWARE OF SIMILIAR ILK IS USED BY EVERY MAJOR FIRM FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS,AND THE SCANNING ABILITY OPENS THE DOOR TO QUICKER DECISION ABILITY AND THE FACTORS EMPLOYED ARE DESIGNED TO ELIMINATE AS MUCH RISK AS POSSIBLE. Thats why they are entrusted with millions.Technical analysis is taught in most major business schools. Obviously traders and investors are tempered by experience and there are as many opinions as there are people who mess with the markets.Why does Reuters predict outperform and other analysts say sell? Who is full of it? As I always say, the true test is in the market. If marlfails, then michaels quest for the perfect predicter will fail. Large volume shifts occur every day in a variety of stocks, but they are not necessarily evidence of fraud. One of the weakness I have observed in most investors is they do not know how to take a profit they are so wed to buy and hold. Selling for profit is an inyeresting subject in itself. cheers GI
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December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 am
This program is online marketer’s scam. Any time you have a penny stock that is alerted to a large subscriber base, you will have a “pump and dump” situation. Only the quick trigger finger can make any money, while most lose money buying at the top during the hyped runup. Check out this article:
http://www.oneworldincome.com/2007/12/02/stock-trading-%E2%80%9Crobot%E2%80%9D-an-online-marketer%E2%80%99s-scam-exposed/
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December 4th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I tried it. Guess what? “MARL” scans the stock database and comes up with a magic stock that will double. Scrolling back up the list of stocks he scans, the selected stock is NOT in the scanned list! Where does this stock come from? Approximately 25 megabytes of download and you get NOTHING - just a simple scrolling list of “scanning stocks” when a search is initiated, and then the magic stock is pulled out of thin air. This is the biggest load of BS I’ve ever been duped into believing. I want my money back! Oh, and the newsletter? after 4 weeks, not one yet. BS! BS! BS!
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December 18th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I downloaded marl (which can be done free at: http://www.doublingstocks.com/downloadmarl.zip ), and decompiled it. It does *absolutely* NO analysis whatsoever. None. Nada. Zero. It looks up one stock in there database, which is predetermined.
Make no mistake — it’s a pump & dump game. However, someone mentioned shorting the pick — interesting idea.
/Olias Sunhillow
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December 18th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Very interesting — thanks for that.
And just FYI, though I do not make any effort to screen all Google advertisers whose ads end up on this site for product quality or anything else, I had enough complaints about this company that I finally did figure out how to block DoublingStocks.com from advertising here through Google, and I’ve done so. I think the block works, but you may well still see similar ads because this “service” is also resold through hundreds of affiliates that I can’t track. (Just FYI for those who do not run websites, the individual Google ads are not selected or screened by me, it’s an automated service. And of course, I do not specifically endorse the individual advertisers who place ads on the site)
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January 9th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
I have not tried their “service” and I’m not going to, because it’s obviously a scam.
First of all, stylistically speaking, the text itself has all the characteristics of a bait.
Second, the technical mumbo-jumbo makes no sense at all. For example: “Marl can process 1,986,832 mathematical calculations per second”. Marl is (or would be if it really existed) software. Software cannot have a fixed speed of execution, because this depends on the hardware it’s running on. A real computer scientist or programmer would NEVER write something like that.
The picture of the laptops running 24/7 tells me the same thing: it’s just there to impress you. If you want a system that performs complex calculations all day long, you don’t use LAPTOPS, that’s just plain stupid. I bet those computers were actually stolen.
Finally, when you leave the page, you get a pop-up window saying “Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page? Wait… Before You Go: I want to show you an actual live video of our stocks robot picking a stock. blah blah blah…”. If they really had such a powerful tool, they would already be incredibly rich and wouldn’t be that desperate to get $47 from you.
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February 12th, 2008 at 1:02 am
Thanks Gumshoe…where have you been all my days??
Just joined recently and have nothing but praise for your expose’
All that you wrote here about Marl is true and as a skeptic felt it was worth the $47, money back guarantee to find out! and it is a scam…to date I have received but 1 of their picks, from the pink sheets with a specific time and date to put in an order…
It climbed from .0005 to .0045 the same day..next day at 9:30 AM it tanked to .0006..Been there ever sense…how do you like them Apples?
I did not play, just watched to see what would happen.just as you wrote..they tell a person to buy so others can unload immediately, leaving one holding the bag!!
I’ve come up with my own picks just doing good old fashioned homework and have done much better.
I’m going to call their bluff on the refund and see what happens…$47 won’t send me to the poorhouse so I can chalk it up to experience if they don’t make good on the guarantee..
Even Warren Buffett admits he HAS made some mistakes before….But not often!!!
Think I’ll donate the $47 to Gumshoe!! Its been an investment and the best one I’ve ever made.
Thanks for your hard work!!
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February 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Doubling Stocks is a “pump & dump” scheme.
I subscribed to see what “Marl” had to say. I haven’t bought any of the recommended stocks.
It appears that if you buy within minutes of the recommendation and sell in an hour or so after the stock is pumped and before everyone else dumps, it may be possible to make a few bucks.
The guarantee does not work either.. Kiss your $47.00 goodbye!
Thanks Gumshoe for a great website!
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April 4th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Thanks Gunshoe for these referances which answers my questions about this scam. I will try if posible to get my 47.00 back thru ClickBank.
Thanks again.
Richard
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April 8th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Well, I did a bit of exploring within the Marl application. I used a .NET decompiler to generate the original source code and started looking through that. Not promising. To be fair, I’m not a .NET programmer (I’m a Java developer), so I may be missing something — not likely, though. However, I could find no place in the code that actually did any analysis of the stocks. Secondly, I used a database query tool to inspect their on-line MySQL database. It contained two tables. One was just a long list of stock symbols — nothing more. The contents of this table was used to create the rapidly scrolling list in the top box in the application. That’s all. The second table is a short list of stock symbols, a message (such as ‘Good Buy!’, ‘Stock is Rebounding’, ‘Good Pattern Trade’), along with a date. This table creates the slower scrolling list in the ‘Marls Watch List’ — no analysis, just displays them one after another. Lastly, it populates the ‘Stock To Buy’ field with the symbol for today’s date. No analysis. Just vomiting the ticker symbol that was predetermined to be ‘recommended’ on this date.
This code isn’t worth 28 cents, let alone $28,000. Almost certainly a Pump & Dump scam. They decide which stock they want to pump, put it in their database with the date they want to pump it (probably in collusion with the directors of the corporation being pumped). Then on the date they want to pump it, Marls all around the world report it as a recommended buy — one the puppet-masters bought the day before. Sadly, in their database, they don’t include their future picks — or we could cash in on some of their action.
Anyhow, I still plan to paper trade their touts, just for grins. Who knows, they may generate enough inertia to make a buck or two (or lose it). I’ll post my results here as they come in. What fun. Oh. and I will pursue a refund (maybe fall for some other scam and dissect it, too).
Oh, and anyone (yes, you too) can download the Marl app for free. Free! It’s at http://www.doublingstocks.com/downloadmarl.zip . So if there’s any .NET geeks out there, you can dissect it too.
Your humble guinea pig and code tinkerer.
/Mistlethrush
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April 10th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I’ve had some mixed experience with the usually unreachable folks that front the marl program. It does seem like you can make some quick money in the first 45 minutes of the trading day if things happen in your favor, but I have seen just as many trade flat or turn south shortly after leaving the gate, so I have pretty much given up on it. Then I start getting the e-mails 1 or even 2 day’s late. Do you think a genius programer would think to print the date of submission somewhere inside the text, even just once? Zero replies came to multiple requests for that to happen. I had been trying to place trades over the phone. If you can’t get a look at a 5 day chart before you invest in their game don’t do it. The final discovery I enlightened myself to is that it appears that if you check the news feeds on the stock that has been picked you will find a pertinent news release dated to the previous day, usually after market close. I know that one of the major financial feeds comes out of Seattle,(Marl’s hometown) so maybe there is a backdoor channel there somewhere. My hope is that someone knows of a filter program of some type that I could put to use to the same effect on penny stocks as even if they pop and drop in the same day I can still make more in an hour or so than I can all day at my paycheck job.My conspiracy alarms are now going off as I just remembered that a previous contributor has said that there have been massive buy-ins in the week or so prior to a Marl pick. Are these legit insider purchases by people that have a right to know pertinent company info prior to it going public or are there a handful of backdoors opening and closing in circle? If this is what this batch of cronies is doing can we play their game without them?
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April 10th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
O.K., so I’m a fool Gumshoe. I don’t read the fine print on anything. Doubling Stocks states that it should not be construed as an independant party and that they except compensation in the amount of $125,000 from a third party or from the company itself to promote said company for the time span of one week. So I don’t think Michael is a genius programer but he is definately playing with a full deck,one that he has stacked for himself. I’ve lost a lot more than I have made on his game so I think I am finally done. Thanks for the forum.
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May 7th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I too got sucked into the allure of lots of quick cash and went to the Better Business Bureau site to check them out. It looks like they just recently listed with the BBB (April 25, 2008 I think?), but there was no record of any complaints there listed under “Doubling Stocks” out of Miami. However, the email I got from “Michael” listed the company as “Global Marketing Corporation” out of Seattle, and this company DOES have a list of unresolved complaints.
Anyone know which it is? Maybe if all of us who have failed at getting a refund (I gullibly just signed up, so haven’t tried it yet, but after reading the comments here, think I too will be seeking a refund) filed complaints with the BBB then some action will be taken and they’ll be forced to comply or at least be truthfully exposed as a scam on the BBB.
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August 10th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
It is impossible for a stock newsletter to give accurate daytrading advice on pink sheets.
It is just not possible. They will almost always gap and then correct just as fast. I would like to find a newsletter that is focused more on company research that is not a “pump and dump.”
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