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4.5
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Jason is right, this position could have easily turned catastrophic if they did not close it when they did. It is a small loss, but the level of stress that they saved me is far more valuable! I used to trade on my own and in those situations, I would have held on “hoping” for things to turn around. Simply put, I lack the discipline to exit trades when I should. I got burned so many times before by not pulling the trigger and that is why I need a service like 10PPM. They handled the situation very professionally and have the discipline to shut things down when needed.
The communication leading up to the closing trade was exceptional! They updated us on the situation and let us know what they were thinking every step of the way. We were prepared for the possible exit and were relieved of any stress from their action. I am able to sleep at night now, not having to worry about my trades with them.
Dear Walter and David,
I really couldn’t care less what you think, but it’s probably time to put end to those ridiculous speculations. I’m not Kevin and I’m not the owner of the other service you think I am. This is my real identity – http://seekingalpha.com/author/kim-klaiman. As you can see, I’m a Seeking Alpha Contributor with 36 articles and over 600 followers. I’m currently #1 (the most read author) in the Opinion Leaders – Options, with articles features in Fortune, Wall Street Journal and Morningstar.
As for those praising 10ppm – the last months have been a paradise for non-directional traders. I had nine profitable months in a row, with two latest RUT trades gaining 70% and 73%. Looking at 10ppm straggling during some of those months, makes you wonder how they will do during really challenging months, like May 2010. As I mentioned, their method of opening trades so late, getting so little credit and holding most of the trades to expiration will work well 90% of the time, but when it doesn’t, the loss will be massive, like in May 2010. It’s just a nature of those trades.
Good luck with 10ppm.
Kim, you obviously ARE concerned with what we think, otherwise you wouldn’t even bother to respond. Nice job on using this review site to advertise for your own personal goals. Something we suspected all along. Thanks for confirming that for us. So you made a couple of good trades, good for you! 10PPM wasn’t struggling during this time. They’ve performed just fine, reaching their 10% goal for their trades. They perform more than 1 trade to diversify. You just traded the RUT and earned over 70%? Wow… sounds risky. Of course, you won’t dare mention the countless other trades that you lost on (that’s not an invitation, by the way). Who cares how many articles and followers you have. It still doesn’t take away from the fact that you can’t do math (1000/1000 = 1%?!?), you lie to try to prove a point (5PPW site is closed), and that you just plain don’t make sense. If your “followers” read your posts here, they’d stop following you, immediately. So you’re a contributor for some website. Big deal. Anybody can do that. It just means that you have a lot of time on your hands and couldn’t get a “real job” at a well known magazine/newspaper or a staff position at a popular website. You’re probably one of those people that just like to hear themselves talk. In this case, you like to read what you type. You’ve given your review here, stated your opinion, lied, made a fool of yourself. It’s time to leave.
You just won’t let the facts to confuse you, do you? Two comments and I’m done with you.
Your comment “So you’re a contributor for some website.” just shows your complete ignorance. Seeking Alpha is a leading investment website, read by over 5 million monthly unique users and by over 45% of U.S. financial professionals. It was named the Most Informative Website by Kiplinger’s Magazine and has received Forbes’ ‘Best of the Web’ Award. BTW, my InstaBlog contains all my trades, good and bad.
Your other comment “They perform more than 1 trade to diversify.” is even more ignorant. 10ppm trades five vehicles: SPY, QQQQ, IWM, RUT, and DIA. IWM and RUT are basically the same, and the rest have over 90% correlation. It’s similar to owning a portfolio of five stocks like C, BAC, JPM, WFC and GS and call it a diversified portfolio. Look at their performance and you will see that the monthly results for all five trades are usually very similar. This “diversification” really helped them in May 2010 when all of the trades lost between 40% and 100% (70% on average). They want you to think they diversify so it looks like you are paying $125 for five trades and not one.
You are one of over 4000 contributors for that site. Don’t put yourself so high on a pedestal, you’re not as popular as you think. And, by the way, nice advertisement again… pathetic.
10PPM uses 5 trades but not all are opened at the same time. This allows for them to have different entry points for each position. If you opened all 5 positions at one time, I agree, that’s not diversifying or spreading out the risk. Since they open these positions at different times, it allows for them to adjust to changing market environments before using up all their bullets. You talked about one trade you made, not spreading the risk out at all… risky.
This diversification was not used with their OLD trading team, and the bad decisions made by them are no longer a factor. They are gone, and 10PPM has new teams, with new rules, which you seem to ignore. All you want to do is focus on one bad trade in the past. Maybe we should dig up one bad trade of yours and just focus on that, but that would require for me to read your rants… no thanks! Apparently, you do not believe that people learn from their mistakes. 10PPM has, and their performance is proof of that.
Kim,
You tried to make a point here, but after having others poke holes in your claims, nobody listens to you. You’re a laughing stock here. Go back and stroke your ego with your followers elsewhere. They didn’t follow you here. I never heard of the website you refer to, but if they allow people like you to contribute, it doesn’t say much.
Last month, 10PPM had to close down one position (QQQ) for a loss. The others expired worthless and the overall return for the month was positive. According to Kim, all of 10PPM’s positions are so closely correlated to each other that if one position loses, they all should. That’s obviously not the case. Regarding their close correlations, the QQQ was up 0.3% today, while the DIA was down 0.5% and the SPY was flat. Yea, that’s some serious correlation for you (sarcasm). Even if they were correlated, just as Walter pointed out, 10PPM’s positions are opened at different times. With different entry points, they will perform independent from each other.
10PPM’s goal is to earn 10% for each position. The fact that all positions earn a similar return is due to that, not because they are correlated, as you claim. As everyone can see, you fail to make another point, again.
Kim is just looking for attention and possibly more followers from this review site. Through his own admission, he never even subscribed to 10PPM. 10PPM has consistently performed great. Do not listen to Kim. How can he unbiasedly review a service if he’s never used it? He doesn’t know all the facts, is just guessing, and making things up.
I found out about 10Percent from these reviews and was very curious about all the comments made, especially from Kim. I decided to join 10Percent to put their service into practice and to see who was telling the truth. After using the service for 4 months, I experienced only 1 losing trade out of 17, earning a simple return of 37%! Kim said that their trades “will work well 90% of the time, but when it doesn’t, the loss will be massive”. This is far from the truth as the losing trade I experienced was well managed. 10Percent closed out the trade and limited the loss to only 9.5%. The other 3 trades were winners that month averaging the month’s return to over 2%.
Another statement made by Kim referred to the non-diversity of 10Percent’s trades. They are not diversified in the technical sense of being in different industries, sectors, etc. 10Percent trades the ETFs of the major averages so there may be some overlap, but they do not have the tight correlation he claims. The positions are opened at different times, thus creating separation of each trade and spreading out the risk. The fact that only 1 trade posted a loss last month disproves his theory that they would all lose at once.
On another note, the math that Kim uses is idiotic. If someone used $1000 for a trade and doubles it to $2000, they earned 100%. Kim believes that the amount one has in their account will change the return. With that said, his math would imply that if someone had $10,000 in their account, traded with $1000, and doubled that to $2000, they would only earn 10%. This is only true if $10,000 was risked in the trade ($1000 / $10,000 = 10%). This math would imply that a $1000 double up to $2000, in a $20,000 account is only a 5% return. How can the same trade have different returns? Kim, to calculate the return, divide the profit/loss by the amount risked on the trade – amount risked, not portfolio value.
In an older post, Kim made a claim that 10Percent’s sister company’s website was closed down and up for sale. Not sure where this came from but 5percentperweek.com is up and running with up to date performance numbers. This was obviously a flat out lie.
Kim recently admitted that he was a contributor for another website. He is obviously trying to get more followers to read his crap. Maybe he gets a higher commission or more recognition with more followers. Don’t fall for it. It says a lot about him that he has to bash another service with false information, just to make others think he’s a know-it-all and read his garbage. He’s nothing but a troll (Google it if you don’t know already, Kim).
Kim is full of lies and I am glad I did not let his false statements deter me from subscribing to 10Percent. If you have questions about the service, please ask. Don’t let one bad apple spoil the bunch.
Kim = FAIL
@Marwan….more like kim= *crickets chirping *…LOL
I AM NEW HERE and notice 69 reviews which don’t see any bad reviews here with 10%permonth service but a newsletter tracking service “www.pro-trading-profits.com” has dropped 10% because they were unprofitable. ANY COMMENTS ARE WELCOME.
I am looking to go beyond my experience of profitable covered calls, and covered puts (not naked because I have to keep the cash on hand) to credit-spreads and debit spreads; especially leaps of high priced stocks and sell calls on weeklys and/or monthlys. Something educational and automatic for now. Your opinion counts; please advise if you can help.
When I first traded with 10PPM, Pro-Trading-Profits had them on their service, but the published returns did not match up with 10PPM’s. Since I was trading during the same time, I could see that the numbers published by PTP were not accurate whatsoever. I’m not sure how they calculated returns, but they were completely wrong.
I emailed 10PPM about it and they told me that they’d inquire with PTP about their numbers. A couple of months later, I noticed that 10PPM was no longer on PTP’s list. 10PPM must have stopped providing their trades to them.
PTP’s claim of 10PPM being “unprofitable” is completely wrong. PTP’s calculations are off and it makes one think about all the other numbers they put out there for other services. PTP is very misleading. I stopped using them after I noticed their incorrect numbers.
10PPM’s returns are accurate as they have published. I’ve been trading with them for a long time and my personal returns match theirs.
I have no experience with 10PPM, but was very intrigued by the ratings. I read some of the past reviews and notice this back and forth dialog about the validity of 10PPM success. As I was looking at 10PPM stats, and the concern mentioned about May 2010 losses, I decided to run some calculations.
1. It’s hard to make an exact calculation as the data on the website has inaccuracies for July & Aug 2011. July says the return was 10.1% return, but would yield $1236 on a $20K investment, which is actually a 6.2% return. August is even a more drastic difference, listing a 31.7% return, but only a $1268 return on $20K, which is actually 6.4% return. As 31.7% appears to be an anomaly, I’m going to assume the correct returns are the one’s in the 6% range.
2. ROI is dependent on how much you invest, when you take into account the $125/mo. fee. That fee drastically reduces the ROI on smaller investment amounts.
3. The 69% loss in May 2010 is catastrophic. If an investor began investing $20,000 with 10PPM in January 2010, and the $125/mo. fee is accounted for, the loss sustained in May 2010 would still not be recouped to date. Their current balance at the end of April 2012 would be $14.438 if Jul & Aug 2011 were actually 6% returns. If July and Aug were actually 10% & 31%, then we would have a balance of $18,945.
3. If they truly have “fixed” their problem, and we could count on a continuance of the last year, that would be phenomenal, as a 20K investment made in Jan 2011, would equal $40,935 as of April 2012. That is taking out the $125/mo. subscription fee. That’s about an annual return of 70% per year. I just have a hard time believing this is something to count on, because something can easily shift in the economy and make their strategy backfire. I would say that if their May 2010 loss was limited to only a 35% loss , rather than 69.5%, then to date a $20K investment made in Jan 2010 would be $48,622 (subtracting fees, of course!) That’s still a 61% annual return for 2.33 years, which is amazing! I can imagine it would be possible for them to make their strategy such that they can minimize losses more.
4. One of the biggest concerns about this company is their inaccurate representation of profits. They claim that if you invest $20K and earn 10% per month, you would have over $62K at the end of the year, equal to a 200% return thanks to compounding interest. They conveniently leave out the subscription fee. Sure, it’s not a huge amount if you’re actually getting 10% every month, but realistic calculations are important. None of their historical data comes even close to a 200% return. Why give a teaser return out there, that they have yet to provide, even in their best years?
I would definitely be interested in knowing if any investors who endured the May 2010 loss are still with them. Do you really believe they have changed, as to not sustain such a loss?
In the past I subscribed to booking alpha, taking profits, options-ignition, mywealthyoptions, 7 minute trader, optionsmart, wall street giant, trade greeks, and several others.
Currently, I am subscribed to only the winning newsletters mywealthyoptions.com, takingprofits.com, 7minutetrader.com. Guarded play of mywealthyoptions is conservative and has given 10 winners in a row in spite of market turmoil. Takingprofits is aggressive, and like their hedging strategy if a trade doesn’t perform as was expected. 7minutetrader is good for high risk/probability trades. 7minutetrader is risky in a way that a single looser can wipe out entire money.
Not sure why bull posted his message here. He doesn’t mention anything about 10PPM which is what this thread was for. Probably another competitor of 10PPM trying to get traffic their way because they can’t get any on their own.
@ Brea – I’ve been using 10PPM for years and I can honestly say that the changes they made since May 2010 are obvious. The trade team involved in that fiasco is gone and the new teams in place now are excellent in minimizing losses, which is accurately represented by their performance page. The discrepancies you mention in your post are due to the fact that not all positions were opened in those months. Up to 5 are opened each month ($4k each for a total of $20k) but sometimes the markets do not cooperate and fewer positions are opened. This results in less capital being traded with and a lower dollar return which is represented on their site. Lets say they open 3 positions and each earned 10%. The average percentage is still 10% but the dollar return is less ($1200 from an investment amount of $12k), which is correctly reported on their site. Have you clicked on the years to pull up all the trades they opened for each month? You will see what I’m talking about. I was with 10PPM during the May 2010 loss, but I was with them for over a year prior to that point. I do not compound since doing so is like putting everything on the line each trade, including past profits. I keep the monthly profits instead. Compounding can kill a trader and it is highly advised to NOT do this. 10PPM shares the same mindset and they even have a link on their site that compares a compounded vs non-compounded account… the compounded account loses. Of course, if they hit 10% every month, with no losers for an entire year, a compounded account will earn over 200%, but come on, this is a brilliant marketing technique. They don’t guarantee success EVERY month, and the 10% is a GOAL. If it were to happen though, and an idiot investor actually compounded everything, they would earn over 200% in 12 months. Back to reality though… any sane investor would know that there will be losses and to assume a service won’t have any, no matter how they market the service, shouldn’t be investing in the first place. The 10% is not a teaser return since they’ve been able to do it a lot. Sometimes it may be less, but it’s not guaranteed, and it may also be due to positions being closed out to avoid a loss. I’d rather take a 2% monthly return vs a gambling service that ends up losing my shirt. 10PPM is a great service!
I agree with Nham…The black-eyes I’ve seen on other newsletters’ performance pages are HUGE compared to what 10PPM has incurred. I am making money and it is a nice change from the losers I’ve had in the past. KEEP IT UP!!
I have been looking for a good auto trade system for some time and the 10PPM seems to be a fairly good system if you put your own risk management in place. Is there anyone who uses the auto trade system (and with which broker) ? Have the results correlated to the posted returns? Have you had any issue getting the trades filled along side the system trades? Any feedback is much appreciated!!
I was with 10PPM at in may 2010 and I had 13,000.00 invested. I got out just in time with a 3000.00 loss but had I stayed in I would have lost it all…YOU CAN LOSE IT ALL WITH THEM..
I am looking at 10 percent per month as possible candidate for a trading service to sign up. I saw the performance numbers and I was intrigued. So, I dug deeper. One thing I saw was they trade 5 indices but not each month. As you don’t know if they are going to trade all 5 or less, you would divide the capital equally, so some months part of your capital is sitting ideal but in their calculations they assume all 20k is invested. Also, they don’t account for subscription fees and commissions. So, I did some math and found if you start with 20k at the beginning of the year, divide it equally between the 5 indices, don’t bring in new money to cover up for losses and keep anything you earn above 20k aside then taking only the subscription fees you would have earned 20%, 54% and -67% in YTD, 2011 and 2010 respectively. For auto-trade, the numbers are 15.3%, 37% and -50%. This compared to using their method which comes out to 26%, 92% and -57%. I hope you find this information useful.
@kevin – I’ve been using 10PPM for years now and am very pleased. I use Think Or Swim as my autotrade broker and they do a great job in filling orders.
@stan – If you use your entire portfolio for any one trade, you deserve to lose it all. Instead of rolling your profits into future months, pocket the winnings! This is what any intelligent trader would do so they don’t “risk it all” every trade. You have the mentality of a Vegas gambler by leaving your winnings on the table for the next hand. I was with 10PPM in May 2010 and lost what I traded with for that month, but not any of the profits I acquired beforehand. They made the necessary changes since then and have performed great, as you can see from their performance.
@vrader – If 10P doesn’t open up all positions in a particular month, you do have some cash sitting idle, but there is nothing wrong with that. They don’t FORCE a trade which could have negative results. During the months where they don’t open all positions, the dollar returns on the site reflects that. If only 2 positions were opened, and they earned 10%, the dollar return would be $800 since $8000 was used. December 2011 is a great example. They opened 3 out of 5 positions, using $12k. The 3 positions averaged 12.3%, returning $1476, which is exactly what they have published on the site. FYI, they recently dropped an under-performing position and open up to 4 positions each month now.
I set up 10PPM to autotrade in my husband’s name (my account was too small) in his Roth and about 1/4 of his IRA. For a couple of months it was fine, then TradeKing notified me that the 2 accounts were going south so fast, the Roth couldn’t even cover the trades. I shut it off instantly. His Roth is now smaller than mine. I have since totally recovered his IRA. Give me time, I’ll undo my mischief. I’m very diligent. signed, Granny