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Will FT-900 Bring about the “next 9/11” in April, 2014? What is Jeff Opdyke talking about?

Checking out the teaser pitch for Opdyke's Sovereign Investor newsletter, similar to Porter Stansberry's "July 1, 2014" dire predictions.

By Travis Johnson, Stock Gumshoe, February 12, 2014

Jeff Opdyke has a pretty inflammatory ad going around these days for The Sovereign Investor, it’s all about how the consistent export of gold from the US — as reported in form FT-900 — will lead to America experiencing it’s “next 9/11” moment in April of this year.

The basic argument is that the US Treasury Department has been secretly selling off the gold from Fort Knox for years, consistently exporting more than can be explained by the mining production and internal consumption of gold in the US, and that the global public is becoming aware of this but will be shocked into action in April.

The April date comes from the fact that he says China has tended to release information about their gold reserves only every five years or so, and they last reported their gold holdings in April, 2009. Next release, whenever (if) it comes, will call attention to the huge hoard China has been building (though it may be largely from mining, as I believe all Chinese-mined gold is required to stay in China)

Here’s what Opdyke says about the gold export anomaly:

“Here’s what I found out: Since 1991, the U.S. has been consistently exporting large quantities of gold on a net basis.

“And the amount of gold the U.S. has exported is well above and beyond what the US should be capable of exporting.

“Let me show you what I mean…

“Using data from the Gold Fields Mineral Services, the US Census Bureau, the US Mint and Bloomberg, I was able to determine the U.S. total demand and supply of gold during those 20 years.

“During that time, the U.S. had a total amount of 7,532 tons of gold available for consumption… but the U.S. consumed 7,605 tons.

“So, we consumed more than we had available to us. That implies we should have been a net importer of gold.

“But oddly enough, we were not. In fact, we exported a massive 5,504 tons.”

I don’t know how reliably these import/export figures describe the real situation in the world, since gold is fungible and recyclable moves around the world in both paper from and in bullion form pretty easily (it doesn’t just get exported from one place, imported to another, and consumed — it could just as easily be exported again to another customer), but there are certainly plenty of folks who believe that the Treasury is hiding empty vaults at Fort Knox. They buttress this both by saying that the Federal Reserve has been dragging its feet at Germany’s request to repatriate its gold (though that’s not at Fort Knox), and by noting that many politicians over the years have asked for audits of both Fort Knox and the Federal Reserve, to no avail.

Just as an FYI, Fort Knox is the US bullion depository — it’s the gold that the government owns, managed by the Treasury Department. The Federal Reserve doesn’t have anything to do with Fort Knox, but has a separate gold bullion depository in Manhattan that is filled with gold owned by the central banks of other countries in the world … it’s the Fed-held gold that Germany has asked to have back, not Fort Knox’s gold. I don’t know if that makes any difference in the grand scheme of things, but they are separate — the US government owns only a tiny portion of the gold that’s being held by the Fed. And yes, it seems sketchy that it is going to take the Fed seven years to give Germany its physical gold back, and that they’ll be returning less than Germany holds with the Fed in New York and less than they initially wanted back within German borders — but “seems sketchy” applies to a lot of global finance, banking, and government posturing, I don’t know if that means there’s really any problem with the availability of that gold in the Fed’s vault or not.

So the basic argument from Opdyke ends up being pretty similar to Porter Stansberry’s argument that we’re on the cusp of the global economy losing faith in the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency, and that the loss of this faith will and would mean that the dollar falls versus other currencies and against commodities, meaning imports would be more expensive for Americans and our wealth and standing in the world would be eroded. Porter also intimates that we’ll see social unrest.

There is a clean and attractive logic to all of that, and it makes some sense given the history of currencies and central banks that points to shakeups every 30, 40, 50 or 100 years, depending on who you ask — the waves of currency dominance have mostly tracked the rise and fall of global empires as the Dutch currency and Spanish currency each had a century or so of global importance before the British Pound took over in the 18th or 19th century, then the British Pound collapsed around WWI and the US dollar began to rise, followed by the gold standard being coopted in the 1930s and then abandoned in the 1970s as “fiat” currencies took over both in the US and worldwide, followed by … well, whatever happens next.

And yes, it is absolutely true that we owe much of what we take for granted — cheap imported goods, cheap energy — to the fact that pretty much everyone in the world has agreed on the dollar as their medium of exchange… and, perhaps more importantly, that we’ve been able to build up a massive debt by borrowing money in a currency whose supply we control. With it not being missed by many that we used a chunk of that borrowed money to build the most powerful military in history.

The hegemony of the dollar is clearly eroding to some degree, partly because dollars should be losing value as we print more of them in order to pay off our debts, though the dollar has held up much better than many folks expected in the last few years … arguably because most other currencies of any size seemed more dangerous, what with Greece and their ilk threatening the Euro, and China’s currency remaining under strict control, and the Japanese Yen being aggressively devalued to save that economy… etc.

I’ll leave the big picture thinking to you — I have some sympathy with the view that the US dollar should be losing value more quickly than it has, and that eventual significant devaluation is the only reasonable way to deal with our un-payable federal debt … though I also think that in the current hair-trigger world of global trading and financial engineering it’s quite possible that all of these changes happen slowly enough that the dollar doesn’t appear to crash. The logic of the dollar’s demise is almost impeccable, but logic doesn’t drive the global economy — and, as we’ve seen in the past, crises send people fleeing to the dollar even if logic tells them that the dollar is doomed. At least, so far.

And I do buy a bit of gold or silver bullion now and then to diversify my savings, I’m mindful of real assets owned by companies, and I sometimes hold foreign currencies (though I don’t have any at the moment)… but it’s worth noting that a productive company that produces or owns something important to people should be relatively agnostic, over the long term, regarding the currency in which their daily business is transacted… failing currencies wouldn’t be good for any business operating in that currency, obviously, but strong businesses have survived worse.

Porter Stansberry’s trigger point for his similarly-described collapse of the dollar is the enactment of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) this Summer — that’s the new tax and reporting regime that the US government is pushing through to improve reporting for banks and to catch more tax cheats, and that looks like it will be a big regulatory burden for banks…. and possibly a better solution to tax evasion, though I’m no expert on the details. Porter thinks that will lead banks to exit the US market and avoid the dollar. That sounds fairly extreme to me, though it will certainly impact banks if and when it’s enacted (it’s already been delayed at least once, to July 1, and many folks think the banks will keep chipping away at it and delaying it or altering it to cut out the teeth).

Otherwise, Porter is essentially spinning the same tale that he marketed extremely aggressively in his “End of America” pitch a few years ago — that you need to get into assets that you don’t have to report to the government (like American Eagle bullion coins), and get some money overseas (get a foreign bank account while you can, buy real estate in other countries), and buy farmland to protect your family, etc. etc. You can see Porter’s latest version of this spiel here if you’re so inclined.

Opdyke has a fairly similar pitch (you can see it here if you’re curious), though his trigger point is different, coming in April instead of July. The basic idea is the same: the dollar’s going to collapse, the world as you know it will change dramatically, buy something that will hold its value if the dollar falls (ie, don’t stuff your greenbacks under the mattress or in a savings account — turn them into something else).

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Like Stansberry, he cites four things to do … and they’re very similar to Stansberry’s stipulations: buy precious metals, sell bonds that mature in more than five years, generate income with trading (selling options, it appears), get some of your money out of reach of the US government, and buy real estate in some select foreign countries. Frankly, it sounds kind of like Opdyke took his lead from Porter’s “End of America” spiel of a few years back and just twisted it a bit … though, to be fair, the folks who have been suggesting the decline of the American Empire have shared similar kinds of ideas for decades (and built a few newsletter-publishing empires in the process).

[And if you’re curious, Porter’s “World’s Most Valuable Asset in a Time of Crisis” is, yes, still farmland. I’m afraid I’m going to be sticking with my farm share subscription for a while and not tilling to earth myself, but still, it’s hard to argue that owning a farm is a bad thing if you’ve got money burning a hole in your pocket.]

Opdyke’s trigger point, that awakening to the fact that China has more gold than the US or than the Federal Reserve, will, he says, come not with a gradual change over decades but with a “bang” … he quotes an oft-cited study on this point:

“Economists Carmen Reinhart and Ken Rogoff explained this phenomenon in their best-selling book ‘This Time is Different’, in which they examined hundreds of confidence crises. They call it the ‘bang’ moment. Here’s how they explain it:

‘Perhaps more than anything else, failure to recognize the precariousness and fickleness of confidence is the key factor that gives rise to the ‘this-time-is-different’ syndrome. Highly indebted governments can seem to be merrily rolling along for an extended period, when bang – confidence collapses, lenders disappear, and a crisis hits.'”

So … will a future announcement about Chinese gold reserves shock the world, or will the enforcement of FATCA drive the rest of the world away from the dollar? Will the dollar collapse with a bang or continue to deflate in value with a whimper as it has for most of the past 50 years? Or even surprise everyone and go the other direction?

I dunno. And I bet geopolitical surprises will play as much of a role as central banks and interest rates. But let’s look into what investment Opdyke is teasing as a way to protect your wealth in this eventuality.

The first thing he points to is physical bullion ownership — which Porter Stansberry and several other folks also say is important, they think it’s critical that you avoid owning just “paper gold” through ETFs or through the futures market, but own actual physical gold you can touch … or, secondarily, own real, audited, allocated gold held in some (preferably foreign) vault that you can have delivered to you if and when needed. Lots of other heavily-hyped newsletters and precious metals pundits have talked up the importance of “physical” gold and silver — I think the last time we wrote about it was for a Palm Beach Letter teaser about the “paper silver” crisis.

And there are a couple more esoteric ideas in the bunch, too, that I can’t really opine on without sounding uninformed — like the foreign real estate pitch, which has him touting a few opportunities to cut taxes by relocating overseas (including a thinly-veiled hint about “Galt’s Gulch”, which is the name often given to Doug Casey’s Cafayete, Argentina expatriate haven). It all ends up sounding like solutions for the wealthy and government-averse or profoundly tax-averse, or for the young and idealistic — who else would go to the hassle of buying foreign real estate and moving halfway around the world? It just sounds exhausting. I moved my family 600 miles in search of higher taxes and worse schools, and if I never move again I’ll be awfully pleased.

Yes, I know that Porter and others say that the “normalcy bias” leads those of us in the comfortable American middle class to think that the government won’t really get that bad or confiscatory, that “they” won’t come for our gold or our retirement accounts, and that this is a throwback to the fact that so many hundreds of thousands of Jews stayed in Nazi Germany until it was too late to escape, failing to see the clear writing on the wall … but I choose to hear that as more offensive than it is prescient.

But anyway, we do eventually get to something that’s more like an “investment” thought.

One of the ideas Opdyke pitches is related to precious metals — here’s how he teases it:

“… there’s an even better way to profit from the rise of a new monetary system. It’s a gold investment few people know exist.

“A small group of investors have figured out a unique way to profit from gold. They’re striking special deals with certain companies involved in the gold industry.

Nolan Watson, for example, started using this strategy back in 2008. So far, he’s already increased his investment by 809%. That’s enough to turn a small investment of $25,000 into almost a quarter million dollars.

“Gold expert John Doody has increased his portfolio by more than 1,200% with this strategy. And many consider him one of the best gold investors of our time.

“Here’s what he said recently:

‘I love [this investment]. You just make these deals and move on to the next one.’

“I call this strategy ‘Golden Streams.’ And it has performed much better than the metal in recent years….

“While gold is up 61% since 2008, the ‘Golden Streams’ investment is up 352%. The good news is you can also participate in these deals right from any brokerage account.

“And what’s really amazing is this special class of gold investment has nothing to do with ETFs, bars, coins, options, mutual funds or investing directly in gold miners. And yet, it has managed to beat all those types of gold investments.

“While ‘Golden Streams’ have performed extremely well in recent years, I expect them to go parabolic once investors lose faith in the dollar.

“Even if gold moves to just $3,000 an ounce, I expect this investment will move more than 700%. That’s enough to turn each $20,000 into a little more than $165,000.”

Sound familiar? Yes, indeedy — Opdyke is teasing the old streaming/royalty concept in precious metals. Which, frankly, is my favorite way to invest in mining as well — but it’s been awful over the last year, getting much the same downside as the actual large mining stocks and falling worse than the price of gold. In general industry parlance, Streaming refers to usually larger investments made in “almost ready to produce or expand” mining operations that give the buyer the right to buy a substantial portion (typically 8-30% or so) of the gold (or silver) mined at a set price, typically fixed at roughly a third of what the then-current commodity price is.

This strategy was developed and commercialized by Silver Wheaton (SLW), which made streaming deals for silver with big non-silver mines (silver being a valuable byproduct that the miners could monetize by pre-selling it to SLW). Nolan Watson was the CFO at Silver Wheaton when they perfected this model, and later went on to found Sandstorm Gold (SAND, SSL in Canada), which is presumably one of the stocks being teased here, and Sandstorm Metals and Energy (SND in Canada, STTYF on the pink sheets), which focuses on base metals (and is still a bit of a train wreck after some bad deals). Sandstorm Gold continues to be my largest mining investment and largest and preferred gold equity investment, but it’s sure been a rough ride as gold has fallen.

Royalties are often the result of investments made into a mining project at a much earlier stage, or of early work by a prospector or settlement to a land owner, and if bought they cost the investor less than streaming deals, and they yield a flat percentage-of-the-gold (or other metal) produced that’s typically far smaller (1-5% or so). The two largest passive gold mining investment companies are mostly royalty owners, Franco-Nevada (FNV) and Royal Gold (RGLD), though they also do both own some streaming deals and some non-gold assets.

So it’s hard to picture a world in which those aren’t the three “Golden Streams” investments Opdyke teases, if only because they’re by far the largest and most accomplished and viable of the existing royalty/streaming companies that are gold-focused — unless you throw in Silver Wheaton in place of one of those to get your silver exposure instead of gold (SLW has a little gold exposure too, but it’s very small)… SLW has been by far the most volatile of the four over the years, but is also by far the largest (the volatility comes largely from the fact that silver has almost always been much more volatile than gold). All four of those streaming/royalty firms are up since 2010 or so … but all are also down considerably (dramatically, even) from their highs of late 2012, when all the world seemed to think that gold and silver were simply not allowed to fall in price. Leverage is fun when prices are moving up and a $100 move in the price of gold causes your stock to go up to 20 or 30% in a month or two, but when gold falls 25% that same leverage means your stock can fall by 50%, sometimes more.

The John Doody quote, by the way, is from a conference call the Phase 1 Investor folks had with Nolan Watson, SAND’s CEO, when they recommended that stock a couple years ago — we covered their teaser pitch for it at the time, but Sandstorm Gold has since put the transcript up online here.

And yes, Opdyke and I aren’t the only ones who like the idea of these “passive” precious metals investments — the benefit of royalties and streaming deals is that you don’t have to worry too much about cost inflation in mining, or about delays in mine development causing a cash crisis or dilution … on the flip side, the downside of these kinds of deals is that same passivity — you end up pretty stuck if the operator is desperate for cash or losing money and can’t finish building the mine, or simply decides to shut the mine down for a while if prices are low. Diversification should help with that, as will counting on Sandstorm or Royal Gold or Franco-Nevada to choose projects wisely, projects that are sustainable and profitable and low-cost, with potential upside from future exploration or expansion … but it does sometimes backfire on the royalty or streaming deal owner if a few partners go bad at once. That’s how Sandstorm Metals & Energy got into trouble a while back, and it’s hitting Sandstorm Gold a little bit right now — the larger RGLD, SLW and FNV are reliant on a few tentpole projects but otherwise are far more diversified than the smaller SAND.

So … all that gives you something to chew on when it comes to the “big picture” stuff … and at least a few royalty and streaming stocks to consider that are likely Jeff Opdyke’s three “Golden Streams.” Got an opinion on any of it? Well, what are you waiting for? That friendly little comment box below isn’t going to fill itself …

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Kirk
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Kirk
February 13, 2014 12:16 pm

Travis: you do such a great job in shedding light on the questionable practices of these newsletter investment peddlers like Stansbury. I had his newsletter for a couple of years, and really got tired of his schtick, and that of others like him. Thank you.
Kirk

Carbon Bigfoot
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Carbon Bigfoot
February 13, 2014 1:32 pm

Let me say I have a history with the Bonner crowd. I was into Casey back in the late 80’s when I sold Diamond Fields prematurely—what a dope!! If anyone recalls Casey made his fame and money in Nikkei puts. He led me astray with the loser book ” Investing for the Rest of the 90’s”.
After that I lock up with several of the Oxford Club gurus including Louie B. and Alex Green. Unfortunately I didn’t have the $$$ to buy their recommendations.
That wasn’t until I bought into the $5000 program with Karim R. and Greenie. Their 35% trailing stops cost me $35K. I did get my $5K back but only after I threatened to sue them for the $35K.
Porter S. cost be a boatload of unrealized gains withdrawing my money from the market.
However his Gold recommendation netted me about $40K.
I wish I found Travis sooner—what a bargain.

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takeprofits
Irregular
March 28, 2014 1:30 pm
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot

Hindsight is always 20/20, but at least you got your money back and were also $5000. to the good, live and learn.

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dcohn
Member
February 13, 2014 2:52 pm

Unluckily I realize this may be a bunch of bull like most of what we read online but Karen Hudes stated on Shift Frequency the following.

This is a snippet only of course HER WORDS NOT MINE. Hope she is right and we beat them down and come out like US Citizens.
I quote part of the article
>>>>Former World Bank Senior Counsel and whistleblower Karen Hudes has an amazing revelation about secret U.S. gold. Hudes says, “We’ve been offered, the United States, 170,500 metric tons of gold on deposit in the bank of Hawaii to underpin our currency which is about to crash. The Federal Reserve Notes are unconstitutional, and we don’t have to pay interest on our debt, and we don’t have to have debt for that matter.” What does Hudes say to her skeptics that doubt her story of 170,500 tons of gold in Hawaii? Hudes says, “I say you are totally kept in the dark and that the mainstream media is controlled by this network of control that is totally documented by the Federal Institute of Technology. You really ought to chide yourself that you are deliberately kept in the dark. So, you shouldn’t be surprised that the world’s wealth is hidden from you when so much else is hidden from you.”<<<<<<<

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sdmaley
September 24, 2014 9:04 pm
Reply to  dcohn

@ 170,500 metric tons of gold
Are the units correct? Most recent version of the promo has a chart showing uS gold reserves peaked at 20,500 metric tons in 1950s. Text following that figure says it was then half of all the gold ever mined. Difficult to tell whether Hudes is credible. The following is interesting: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/03/27/the-world-bank-rejecting-the-rule-of-law/

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sdmaley
September 24, 2014 10:58 pm
Reply to  sdmaley

While estimates of all the gold ever mined vary, it appears the promo was way off. See, eg: “How Much Gold is there in the World?”, 31Mar2013: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21969100

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Peter Strickler
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Peter Strickler
February 13, 2014 8:12 pm

If you do believe any of this may happen, it would be pretty silly to invest in any asset that is dollar denominated. If you are a little worried, just simply buy an insurance policy, which is what I consider Gold stocks, such as Silver Lake resource or Kings-gate in Australia and buy them in Aussie dollars and you’ll be just fine.

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frank nolan
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frank nolan
February 13, 2014 9:53 pm

Would the dollar devaluation have the same effect as a default? I’m thinking a default would put every bank account personal and corporate , trusts, real estate asset, mortgage, insurance company and every pension plan into a re-valuation as zero assets. Would the same be true of a serious devaluation?

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Irregular
March 28, 2014 1:42 pm
Reply to  frank nolan

Frank (25) Ultimately a devaluation of the dollar is inevitable because “WEALTH” can not be printed as it consists of the earth’s resources (freely given by a benevolent Creator) and owned by all of humanity) and our share is determined by our contribution of human labour!
Man has not yet learned to be truly thankful for what he has been given or disposed to enact laws that ensure a fair distribution of wealth according to each persons contribution. The society that man has created in contrast is one of greed focussed on acquiring assets they did not work for. Yes ultimately defaults will cause our unsound economy to collapse, and the dollar may well be the kingpin, that levels the playing field.

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Leslie Dweck
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Leslie Dweck
February 14, 2014 1:01 am

China has most to loose by a devaluation of the U.S. dollar and have most to gain by the dollar strengthening. China is not allowing its currency to float precisely so that it does not appreciate to where a free market will take it, They have long ago realised it simply was not in its overall interest to allow its currency to rise and to allow the dollar to devalue. Making their exports far more expensive and USA manufacturing far more attractive does not help them bring their economy out of the dark ages up to Western Standards of living. Their vast economy has a very long way to go before such a strategy will make any sense, a process that will take several decades at the very least.
Furthermore ignoring that the USA, in a few years, has turned from being a vast net importer of energy to an ever growing exporter of energy is of course very daft as well as very short sighted. The USA is now blessed with bountiful cheap supplies of energy and continues to lead the world technologically.
Whilst the saying when the USA catches a cold the rest of the world catches pneumonia may not be as true as it used to be, the recent recession has made it very clear just how much the world needs the USA to be well, consuming and creating a stream of world beating products. This will remain the case for the foreseeable future especially as the developing countries vast populations are still very far from equalling western population’s standards of living.
China, India are basically very poor countries with vast populations most of whom need to be dragged into the 21st Century, that is not a process that can be achieved overnight. The mere fact that this process is making more and more Chinese and Indian consumers rich is of course a bonanza for the USA and European goods which thankfully the nouveau riche Chinese and Indians have a penchant for. The mere fact that these developing countries are producing our western products far cheaper than we can do so, also make Western consumers better off by leaving more money in their pockets.
The USA and its companies are currently in the midst of a bull run that will run for very many more years exponentially as the Chinese and Indians get richer and richer and allow their ever greater demand for western goods to grow. We have the mother of all booms before us with the USA very well placed to take full advantage and more than its fair share of the huge increase in demand from the developing countries.
The dollar is more likely to appreciate substantially than to devalue over the next 10 years. I certainly will not bet against it.
Indeed throughout most of its history the Dollar has vastly appreciated in value. It is therefor not to surprising that it should have in more recent history given up some of that vast appreciation.
The USA is one of the safest places to invest in, with very great prospects. The Middle East is no longer important to the USA but critical to the developing countries. Who still need to deal with the horrendous oil cartel. Gold will eventually slide down to values that will shock most in such a scenario. Perhaps $600 and below. This is no time to hold Gold. Indeed I wonder whether Gold should ever be considered an investment rather than a desperate hedge against Armageddon. Even that makes little sense because, in such circumstances, will not the gold disappear from our global vaults before the owners can ever get it out? Will not Law and order descend to merely survival of the fittest? Will not any one carrying gold bars or coins around to pay for things merely be a target for desperate theft ?
I will add that the Debts of the USA will pale into insignificance as did the vast debts accumulated after WWII with the sustained boom that followed. This time, this will be achieved thanks to China and India as well as other developing countries becoming wealthier and buying, in ever greater numbers, the desireable premium goods the USA creates,
I am not American, I am British, so my vision cannot be said to be clouded by patriotism.

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arch1
February 14, 2014 5:07 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Leslie I agree with some & disagree with other of what you say. $ will not lose all “value” it is backed by “Full faith & credit of U.S. govt. ; Translated that means backed by govt. ability to extract money through taxes from U.S. resident. As you know we can use anything we choose for money, in early USA used deer skins,term still lingers in word ‘buck’,, penny was, ‘pennyweight’ of barleycorn. Oak tree nut could be used as ‘a’ corn etc. Problem is most such rot or rust; gold very durable,,also ‘shiny’ & people like shiny thing. Price of $ varies in how much gold you can buy for $ & thus is more stable measure of wealth.
Historically in time all fiat/zero backed money fails but seems there is always demand for gold although if you are starving corn is much more valuable. Despite widespread Keynesian religion i think it is impossible to borrow or spend your way out of debt, thus provision of bankruptcy in English common-law. Enjoy the ride, velocity is growing.

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Leslie Dweck
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Leslie Dweck
February 16, 2014 9:51 am
Reply to  arch1

Dare I say that spending our way out of debt was precisely what we did after WWII
so succesfully thanks to the USA inspired Marshall Plan. Look at Germany France and
the UK then and thereafter, as well as the boom that benefited all, especially the USA, as a result.
Thank God the USA had the foresight in the current recession to adopt a diluted Keynsian solution that avoided a depression that would have been worse than all previous depressions and put us all back on a path to healthy growth that in itself enables us to meet our debts. Temporary devaluation is a far more acceptable price to pay than a full blown lengthy depression for rich and poor.

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scor
scor
February 23, 2014 10:53 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

The massive amounts of debt can’t be unwind unless a huge depreciation of the currencies,also the euro ,Yen and even the Chinese currency,because also China is dealing with about 1 trillion of bad loans,indeed a very low number in comparison with US debt but you never know the real numbers.
I guess China is loading up gold because they want to have enough collateral against their holdings of a huge pile of US bonds and also Euro bonds in wich they fear to be trapped, but to enforce their currency to become the new reserve,they need at least 10000 tons of gold and this is not for the near futur I guess,they are masters in deceit and I wouldn’t trust a currency of a totalitarian nation That’s why gold(silver) is the ultimate inssurance against what will eventually happen,better a few years early than one day to late, that is a huge reset of assets against debt(fiatmoney) wich is already going on in many hyped and overpriced US shares,good company shares are save when they are not overpriced wich is not the case , is the possible panic out of the us dollar going to inflate the stock bubble even higher ? Possibly yes but instead I think there will be a huge escape out of the stock bubble like it always happened for the last 25 years when financial panic occurs and because of the escape out of shares the usd could temporally even soar against the other fiat currencies as it did in 2008,but the ultimate save haven in the longer term remains physical gold to protect at least half of your assets,junk silver coins will do for the groceries when the light goes out,with the rest you can play in the stock casino with possible nice gains but also keep in mind for a total loss,because the financial sytem is rigged and artificially set by the cartel…guess,guess who are they?

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Irregular
March 21, 2014 5:12 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Leslie: Would be interested in knowing what you define as “healthy growth” as the only thing that could be defined as experiencing “healthy growth” currently is “DEBT” if you are applying the word healthy as meaning substantial, certainly applied to debt it is not desirable.
Since our currency on a world scale is “borrowed into existence as debt” how can we ever experience “healthy growth” in our economies when an ever greater portion of the average wage earners income goes to interest and taxes to cover government debt? Before you attempt an answer read my comment to Steinfeld who posted end of Jan.

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arch1
February 14, 2014 5:27 am

ADD IF not clear I meant gold more stable than dollar. Could have diamond backed money or Pearl backed money but diamonds burn & pearls dissolve in wine. With nod to P.J. O’rourke After we “eat the rich” where next do we turn?

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ernesto
ernesto
February 14, 2014 7:32 am

I was afraid when I saw the gold (metal)price push dawn without any of the usual excuses
and the dollar did not move ,I though there is some gov. making dollars but not excavating gold and felt the equation unbalanced in favor of gov. spending, I am still afraid
US. sadfully would be closing the gap with P.I.G.S. economy if the dollar were backup by gold ,no printing, no spending, no way to pay debt ,as for now printing dollars with the honest workers purchasing power ink, is devaluation the same.
dooms day could come a day that chinesse offer a currency backup in gold for internationals transactions and government reserve isn’t it? even if it is only half backed.
Porter is right , the concept of owning land is a solution,the problem is where? I would say
Norway? US?

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Leslie Dweck
Guest
Leslie Dweck
February 16, 2014 10:00 am
Reply to  ernesto

Owning housing or land in a depression is a great way to loose money.
as mentioned above in my reply to Frank Archambeau suffering a temporary devaluation is far better than suffering a full blown lengthy depression. Gold backed currencies were abandoned precisely because they bring about depressions and stiffle world trade. Both of which empoverish us far more.

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scor
scor
February 23, 2014 11:43 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Deflation is good for common people ,but bad for the ridge because they can’t create wealth out of thin air ,a house is to live in and protection against inflation if you bought it on the cheap,since real estate is hugly overpriced in many countries and especially in the UK and also in many countries overtaxed it’s something to ignore these days.
If you think that we are in a temporary devaluation,think twice ,the current cheating of extend and pretend is soon coming to a screeching halt and that will create a full blown depression,they can’t keep creating smoke and mirrors and increase debt load for ever without eventually hitting the wall,we are sitting on ticking time bomb ,the only question is when? Better a few years early than one day to late to go for protection and that wil not be in overpriced London real estate,I understand the Britts only have a poor 300 tons gold left to cover their overpriced pound and therefor are in denial of the need of having enough gold, the Uk is very lucky that for instance many French left their country to go to do bussines in London because France is ruled by an idiot who only thrives and steals from productive people and redistribute it to an army of unproductive +5 million’ fonctionaires’ and creating poverty to millions common French citizens,the damage done trough this braindrain is huge and almost unreparable unless they kick that idiot out and go for a total different direction of encouraging investments and entrepreneership trough massively bring down taxes and social security costs .I know it’s not going to happen because it’s in their genes and it will eventually end up in war as it did several times in history.
The UK wants to be part of Europe to take advantage of it but dont want to go for the rules and commitments of the EU,as long as they can get away with that the UK does quiet well without decent goldreserves but the time when the big reset occurs I think they will revisit the bad times of the 80’s,only the ridge escape from this ,they become only a bit less ridge but middle class gets wiped out and the backbone of the country wil vanish and bring a massive change in daily live and finally end mass consumption on wich our current economical and financial system depends.
London is an important financial center and thriving on overpriced paper assets wich can be wiped out in a blink of an eye ,remember 2008,if no QE what would have happened ? The next crisis how are they going to rescue then? New massive even bigger QE’s?

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takeprofits
Irregular
March 29, 2014 8:11 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Really Leslie, “Gold backed currencies were abandoned precisely because they bring about depressions and stifle world trade.” Reality, politicians who want to spend, spend and spend some more, do not like the discipline that gold imposes, simply creating dollars via the printing press is so much easier and costs only the price of paper and ink. If they had to go into the mines to work hard to dig up tons of precious metals to earn a living they would soon learn putting ink to paper is not the way to create real. wealth. Would you agree with me that our money supply should be equal too and determined by the production of the country, with no free ride for anyone?

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Johnk2
September 15, 2014 8:27 am
Reply to  ernesto

Some place like Norway but in the US.

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arch1
February 14, 2014 3:19 pm

Early on in thread [post 2] there was a question about ‘sun gas’. There is currently a lot of research being done on premise & I am not sure which is being pitched. That said sun gas deals with trying to convert solar to hydrogen not using hydrolysis, briefly ;conversion of solar energy to heat to produce hydrogen and CO from water & methane. In other words conversion of solar energy to chemical energy to heat to boil water to generate elecrticity or if not want electricity convert chemical to fuel. Dizzy yet? By the way plants do this much more efficiently thru photo-synthesis. IMHO bio-fuel from algae much more likely to repay investment. http://journal.iisc.ernet.in/index.php/iisc/article/view/23 I think money is to made from vast quantities being spent in effort to stop use of fossil fuels. Can we agree that we all desire healthy environment? Evolution of climate is a fact; I think facts show that deforestation [both logging and ‘natural’ fires], volcanic release of CO2, biological processes [ think respiration,digestive gas & decomposition of organisms] and natural chemical processes in earth are much greater effect than our use of fossil fuel. I wonder how much hatred of “greedy” producers contributes. If, as seems to be case often, greed is desire for more we are all greedy, ‘ may have enough food for today but want more for tomorrow’. Are greedy govt. class more saintly than greedy producers of goods? Are greedy scientists more saintly than truck drivers? Are greedy investors more saintly than suppliers of our needs? Perhaps worth pondering.

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arch1
February 14, 2014 3:31 pm
Reply to  arch1

BTW; Did you know immense quantity of hydrogen is being destroyed by agency of nuclear fusion??? In the sun.

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JayBee
Guest
JayBee
February 15, 2014 5:31 pm
Reply to  arch1

Frank,

I read you, and I think to myself, “Gee, and people don’t believe in Aliens?”

Russ Kennel
February 15, 2014 12:29 pm
Reply to  arch1

Here is the website DiGeorgio refers to. It is really Syngas made by Pacific Northest National Laboratories. http://energy.gov/articles/renewable-boost-natural-gas

Marco matacotta
Marco matacotta
February 15, 2014 3:00 pm

I don’t usually participate in the comments but I am an eager reader of whatever Travis has to say about investing.
I read a comment regarding the position of john Mauldin on the dollar and the fractional reserve system. I read also Mr. Mauldin and I respect him, but you have to know that he is also selling many newsletters and other services and he is a friend of Mr. Casey. So much so that he is participating in an event that will be held in Cafayate next March.

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Stan K
February 15, 2014 6:39 pm

For now, US$ is one safe haven for the world. I think its value represents the country’s GDP, taxing ability, and military. It is of value because we all agree it is of value, though some are forced to the position kicking & screaming. Utilitarian items, such as acreage, housing, copper, silver, wheat, corn, and, in our milieu, such items as an iphone or a subaru, are of value, as are the enterprises that produce the things we use. Therefore, investments in the above should pan out if bought at the right price. Gold. . . well, it’s probably in for a short-term correction, say at least three months, because it rose on a very flat double bottom with no spike lower, just a steady slide then smooth rise. Isn’t there supposed to be capitulation, panic selling, practically no bid before a major turn? Just like the dollar, it’s of value mainly because we all agree (enough of us, anyhow), that it is “nice” to own.

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arch1
February 18, 2014 1:07 pm
Reply to  Stan K

Stan; I cannot disagree with anything you state. The question is mainly when gold to dollar ratio change occurs. In a way it seems strange to expend so much effort in digging something from the earth & then for the most part rebury it in vaults. None the less I don’t think many would refuse the gift of a kilo or two of gold.

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Leslie Dweck
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Leslie Dweck
February 16, 2014 1:18 pm

It seems to me that the dollar with interest compounded has increased far more than Gold since 1792 the earliest records I can find for gold prices.
in 1792 gold was worth $19.99 and closed in 2013 at 1204.5 a 60.25 increase in value
$ 19.99 invested long term in 1792 on the basis of 3.5% pa compounded, would be worth at the end of 2013 $2073.75 a 103.74 increase. I dare say it could be argued that far higher interest rates were achievable over this period than the 3.5% i have taken. It could also be argued that in order to hold gold securely, considerable expense is required which I have not accounted for in this exercise. So historically over a long period of time the $ has proved to be a far greater store of wealth than Gold which produces nothing and costs money to store safely. It only moves up drastically in times of fear, when people see it as a safe haven and goes down drastically from previous dizzy heights when other investments appear far better in more normal times.
Thus it would seem that those who see Gold as a store of wealth delude themselves by taking comparatively far shorter time periods to make their case which on the very long term does not stand up to scrutiny.
Buffet explained very clearly why stock investments are far better than Gold in the long term in his 2011 letter to Berkshire shareholders
Quote
“Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce — gold’s price as I write this — its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.
“Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobil’s (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?
“A century from now the 400 million acres of farmland will have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops — and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever the currency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will be unchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.”
“Our country’s businesses will continue to efficiently deliver goods and services wanted by our citizens. Metaphorically, these commercial “cows” will live for centuries and give ever greater quantities of “milk” to boot. Their value will be determined not by the medium of exchange but rather by their capacity to deliver milk. Proceeds from the sale of the milk will compound for the owners of the cows, just as they did during the 20th century when the Dow increased from 66 to 11,497 (and paid loads of dividends as well).
“I believe that over any extended period of time this category of investing will prove to be the runaway winner… More important, it will be by far the safest.”
Unquote
Words of wisdom as far as I am concerned that investor in Gold should heed and that convinced me of the folly of owning Gold at $1,750 as a store of wealth.

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arch1
February 18, 2014 1:30 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Leslie; I think many would sell gold to you at your rate of exchange. Did you forget gold is priced in troy ounces? I ran your figures & arrived at $7,854 trillion. I do agree that the means/abilities of the people are the true measure for expected increase in “wealth” & I think at present USA is unrivaled & will continue so if Govt. does not destroy willingness of the people to produce.

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scor
scor
February 23, 2014 12:44 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Maybe history shows that usd with intrest rates compounding did better than gold over the last 100 years but the actual massive debt pile was untill a few years ago only a small amount of what it represents now,it went up +200% since 2008,so the question is what will be the impact of this huge pile of debt on the fiat curencies in the near futur or in a few years to come? That is what you need to think about now not what happened in the passed because the debt pile was never as huge as it is now and still growing ,the eventual possible outcome could be very beneficial for gold when gravity kicks in. I know that eventually after a huge depreciation of fiat, gold will better be traded for better assets, as cheap shares after a huge crash and in the new or very deflated currency after the reset,but for now it’s good to be carefull

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takeprofits
Irregular
March 21, 2014 6:00 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Interesting case you try to make with a one-sided argument, but it has one fatal flaw. Nowhere in your lengthy explanation did I see any mention of “purchasing power” which is the ultimate consideration, i.e. store of VALUE! Name one other currency in history besides the U.S. dollar that has survived for 100 years? Gold in contrast has for 5000 years bought a pretty steady amount of any commodity you want to name, a suit of clothes, bushels of wheat, gallons of oil etc. So there is only real question that needs to be asked to fairly COMPARE the value of an oz. of. gold with “dollars” that no longer have any defined value. SO, lets use the U.S. governments “defined value” of $35. for an ounce of gold (after first having robbed their citizens of their only real money) and compare how much $35, would BUY of any useful commodity essential to human life compared to the purchasing power of an oz. of gold. TRUTH; the DOLLAR was originally defined in the coinage act of 1792 as 417 grams of standard silver, (used as money historically by more nations than used gold) and what do we find. Compared to the value of a dollar when the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was enacted, the wimp of a dollar we use today has LOST 98% of its purchasing power.
No matter how pretty the paper or colourful the ink, no countries currency in all of history has provided good wealth preservation in terms of purchasing power, most of them are extinct as the U.S. dollar soon will be, (2% left to go) before it too like every fiat currency will soon have returned to its intrinsic value of ZERO! The reason the effort to hold down the price of gold is so intense and manipulated by the bankers is because they know a rising gold price exposes their Ponzi scheme of fractional reserve banking that enriches them while impoverishing the masses. But you protest, the dollar is backed by the “full faith and credit of the U.S. government” so, given the results of the last hundred years, an un-payable debt of $17.5 TRILLION dollars how long do you think FAITH in human substitutes for real money and the governments that create them will last? It is a CON game, derived from confidence, and when the masses finally discovery how they have been hood-winked by their elected leaders, they will hold them accountable and demand honest money.

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Leslie Dweck
Guest
Leslie Dweck
March 28, 2014 4:01 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Frank
Below the calculation, I fear the over-exuberance of gold bugs may have affected your maths. It is however irrefutable that your calculations are very mistaken.
1 oz = 0.91 troy oz
1lb. = 0.091*16 = 14.56 troy oz
1 kg = 2.2046 lbs * 14.56 = 32.098 troy oz
1 metric ton= 1000*32.098 = 32,098 troy oz
32098 troy oz * 170,000 metric tons * $1,750 per oz = $ 9.549155 trillion
Which was very generously rounded up to $9.6 trillion.
My apologies for highlighting your error but it is important that the very poignant irrefutable point I make is not wrongly dismissed by your mathematical genuine mistake.
Leslie

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arch1
March 28, 2014 5:13 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Leslie thank you for the correction. I just ran figures for present price & arrive at approximate $7.105 Trillion price for total world gold supply. I know that neither price or supply is constant so figure is subject to change.

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Johnk2
September 15, 2014 8:34 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

I like your comment. Very good research.

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tructor
Member
February 17, 2014 11:30 am

Why not request the figures on Ft Knox gold and Fed Reserve NY gold via Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) letters to US Treasury & the Fed?

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cryptocoby
Member
cryptocoby
February 17, 2014 6:59 pm

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

I haven’t heard any reference to the Fedwire, which was created right before BTC became publicly traded. The dollar only holds 3% of its value compared to before the Fed Reserve Act, 1-4 Americans lives below poverty line and half are on some kind of gvmnt assistance (dshs.gov). Inflation is steady at +/-3% and unemployment is steady at +/-8%, but what we dont hear about is the devaluation at light speed to accompany higher taxes, fees, licensing, regulations etc that are turning the middle class into the working poor.

Dollars equals debt. Period. Fiat is corrupt elite’s wet dream because they can buy votes by giving “free” shit in exchange for votes. What we do know is that foreign investors and nations aren’t buying our debt anymore, we’re printing money at light speed and all the foreign money we sent out is also coming back at astronomical rates. Mathematically, unless Uncle Sammy hikes taxes another 10%-15% or starts confiscating assets (history shows broke gvmnts always do 100% of the time. See: 1933) then the dollar is dead no later than 2016.

^^ That is why Barry will backdoor MyRA, in addition to already passing ACA unconstitutionally. Nobody to buy our debt? Make Americans do it for returns that dont even cover inflation. It will start as voluntary and with the stroke of the pen will be mandatory. Meanwhile, digital currency is mostly what private bankers deal in anyways with Fedwire, and since its through the Fed, its outside of legal jurisdictions, audit, oversight or verification. Its a digital money tree, wherein the trusty gubmint can track your every single move as we move into the age of “smart cities”.

With 660+ trillion made up dollars floating through the private banking system, and with the luxury of getting taxpayers to fund it in addition to carrying the debt and being charged interest, there is no reason to believe digital money will not take over. Btw, fedwire started april 19th 2009 just to offer food for thought.

OIL is the US primary resource and Rockefeller was able to control supply and demand with “global warming” and “green laws and taxes”. The small to mid size oil companies are being taxed and regulated out, while behemoths are getting hundreds of billions right back via taxpayer subsidies. I won’t even get into shale and the foreign “black market” for twice the profit.w What’s happening is that gold, oil, gems, crypto and other commodities (‘member monsanto?) Will back a digital currency. Its not IF but WHEN.

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Leslie Dweck
Guest
Leslie Dweck
February 17, 2014 11:24 pm
Reply to  cryptocoby

Crypto Coby It seems to me it is not if but when a digital currency wipes you out. Together with all the gold fanatics who delude themselves into thinking Gold is a great store of wealth, in the long term, when it clearly is not as we recover from recession having avoided depression thanks to the Fed. and as Global growth is about to expand exponentially and create the longest bull run we have ever seen on the back of billions of consumers becoming ever richer in China, India and a host of developing countries and their clear love of Western luxury , products and Technology. Rather than cursing the Fed you should be praising them to the rafters We are all far richer than we would have been had they allowed the economy to go into a major depression the likes of which would have made all previous depressions seem like a walk in the Park. Count your lucky stars give endless thanks to the FED for their terrific guidance and management,,they really know what they are doing, far better than you or I, thank God. The debts gathered will pale into insignificance with the boom we are abouy yo have. I would remind all the State of the world economy and the by comparisoin the even greater debts that existed and how they simply did not prove to be catastrophic in the unprecedented boom that followed. The Printing presses of the USA had gone into overdrive to put the world back on its feet with the courage and brilliance of the Marshall plan. Their courage faith paid off handsomely.

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Leslie Dweck
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Leslie Dweck
February 17, 2014 11:30 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Sorry should have checked what I wrote.Above should have read ” I would remind you all the state of the world economy after WWII.”

takeprofits
Irregular
March 21, 2014 6:28 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

Leslie: Do you work for the FED, or in your case the Bank of England, or do you think $17.5 Trillion debt is of no consequence? If so, what kind of marks did you get in mathematics when you went to school? Given the total amount of debt in the world at all levels of government on down to corporations and private citizens that originated from the U.S. model of Central Banking and fiat (phony) currency how could you possibly praise the FED?
While i am inclined to laugh at your statement, “thank your lucky stars, give endless thanks to the FED, for their terrific guidance and management” yeh, all $17.5 TRILLION worth.

Can’t you understand that the problem was simply a badly flawed system and what they were doing in avoiding a depression is simply tinkering with the system to keep their Ponzi scheme going as long as possible? The looming depression as all of them previously, was CAUSED by the corrupt system they originally designed to enrich themselves. Instead of actually “FIXING” it to protect the consumer, they just shoved the evil day of reckoning down the road a little further.

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Leslie Dweck
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Leslie Dweck
March 28, 2014 4:42 am
Reply to  takeprofits

I neither work for the Fed or the Bank of England.
My maths should never be found lacking since it has always been excellent. The calculations in my post are in any case exceedingly basic and correct.
I can only suggest you free your mind of conspiracy theories and consider seriously the points I make on their own merit as well as what the consequences would have been to your wealth had the Fed simply allowed all the major banks globally merely to fall like a pack of cards and simply made no effort to prevent the economy going into meltdown. That was the alternative. Let me assure you everyone’s wealth would have been decimated to a far greater extent. Ignoring such fundamental considerations merely leads to, with all due respect daft conclusions that simply do not stand up to scrutiny.

takeprofits
Irregular
March 28, 2014 2:27 pm
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

The fact that the FED may have prevented a temporary problem of threatened breakdown of the banking system is in itself prima facie proof that the system is faulty. It is the Federal Reserve Act itself that is the fundamental problem, so how can your praise the FED for preventing a problem that they themselves created? You totally ignored every factual point that I made, you never directly addressed a single fact I stated in rebuttal to your thesis.

All you basically did was defend your own mathematical prowess while ignoring counter-points presented. So tell me by what slight of hand is your beloved FED going to engineer repayment of a $17.5 TRILLION debt, or do you believe they can forever keep printing currency created out of thin air on which they demand interest without the system breaking down? I am not into conspiracy theories, I look at the mathematical facts and that means your numbers are badly flawed because they do not take into consideration the hundreds of trillions of dollars of debt (on a world scale) that this badly flawed system of fractional reserve banking has produced.

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Leslie Dweck
Guest
Leslie Dweck
March 29, 2014 6:30 am
Reply to  Leslie Dweck

It is disingenuous of you to describe the Fed’s saving of the entire global banking system as a temporary problem.
Also to suggest that it was the Fed who was responsible for the creation of the problem in the first place is simply not true. That professional bankers and investors, negligently, relied on rating agencies to assess the risk of their investments and that these professional rating agencies, grossly negligently gave a AAA rating to investments that should have been rated as Junk is certainly not the fault of the Fed. Professional investors and their advisers are of course free to be able to take their investment decisions without interference.
The Fed is not part of a nanny state that prevents experts from taking their own investment decisions and making their own assessments as to the risk of any of their investments. That the Fed has a duty to attempt to clear up the consequences of such a devastating mess is clear. That the Fed has so successfully dealt with this vast problem, prevented the collapse of the global banking system, as well as prevent a depression like we’ve never seen before and still maintained confidence in the global financial system, is of course a very impressive achievement. Hats off to the Fed. Far from being a failure of system it has proved to be a most flexible system that is undeniably very robust. There are always lessons to be learned however it is clear that great improvements from historic events that tipped us into depression have occurred. In
Bernanke we had an expert who had studied the lessons to be learned from the previous great depression and applied them.
Most of the points you make have actually been addressed in my previous postings above and I did not feel the need to repeat these and bore everyone to tears.

“It seems to me that the dollar with interest compounded has increased far more than Gold since 1792 the earliest records I can find for gold prices.
in 1792 gold was worth $19.99 and closed in 2013 at 1204.5 a 60.25 increase in value
$ 19.99 invested long term in 1792 on the basis of 3.5% pa compounded, would be worth at the end of 2013 $2073.75 a 103.74 increase. I dare say it could be argued that far higher interest rates were achievable over this period than the 3.5% i have taken. It could also be argued that in order to hold gold securely, considerable expense is required which I have not accounted for in this exercise. So historically over a long period of time the $ has proved to be a far greater store of wealth than Gold which produces nothing and costs money to store safely. ”
I trust this more than adequately deals with your real value point in the long term mathematically over the entire span of recorded data that is available. It is of course misleading to deliberately and conveniently select far shorter time periods to prove the opposite as almost all gold bugs do. The mathematics I rely on are correct and compare like with like properly rather than selectively to delude oneself.
I have also highlighted how Germany and Europe repayed vast debts to the USA under the Marshall plan following WWII. These were far greater pro rata then the debts the USA currently has. These were also made available curtesy of the USA’s printing presses. The boom that followed enabled all these vast debts to be repaid entirely and set all these European countries on a course to prosperity and made the USA enjoy unprecedented prosperity. The driving force to repaying the debts and delivering unprecedented prosperity is of course the exponential expansion in the demand for the USA’s technology goods and services, as the vast Chinese, Indian, populations become richer and can afford them in far greater numbers as well as the vast incomes and taxation that flows from the truly vast energy reserves and diversity of energy harnessed that now make the USA not only self sufficient in energy but will also make it the biggest energy producer in the world and a net exporter of energy. USA manufacturers enjoy some of the cheapest energy in the developed world as well as a competitive exchange rate now.
Just as the vast debts accrued after WWII paled into insignificance so will the USA’s debts in record time.

Even if the rumours that there is not enough above ground gold to cover all the paper that was issued any default on the paper or the delivering up of physical gold from the vaults will very badly undermine the Gold market and as a result the majority of investors in gold. They simply cannot themselves store the gold or take the risk of storing the gold on their premises under their control at all times. Nor can they trust in
paper or others to hold it for them. Gold will then not be an investment vehicle most people can have faith in and accept.
The actual shortage of gold will in fact under these default circumstances cause gold to go down as confidence is entirely lost in the gold market and everyone bails out of the investment. Is this not the reason for the current drops from the high? It’s the only thing that makes sense when the USA tells Germany it will deliver its gold from its stores over 7 years? 7 Years!!!! Confidence in the market and vaults is fast disappearing and it is probably only a matter of time before most want out of this market. Without confidence in any market there is no market.
Gold bugs heads you loose tails you loose, this is not a risk reward prospect I can take on or fancy no matter how short gold may be and what happens to the price. At times it is best just to get out of a market in which confidence is likely to be lost.
An investment lesson I learnt a very long time ago NEVER GO AGAINST THE FED. When the Fed needs prices to go down they will go down by hook or by crook, their influence, power and pockets are far greater than any one else’s for it to be a sensible proposition to oppose them. Guess who needs gold prices to go down to replenish their stocks easily and more cheaply. Is not a managed loss of confidence in the gold market the only way to achieve such an aim and curb demand drastically on a market that is short of Gold? With so many new amateur gold investors, how long will it take to get them to loose confidence in the market and their alleged gold holdings. Is not this plan working wonderfully currently. How else do you explain the drop from the highs following the announcement that they will deliver German gold from their vaults in 7 years. 7 years!!! At a time when tensions with Russia Syria the Middle East have gone through the roof etc etc. What more do you need to see to recognise the build up of fear and loss of confidence?

Loss of confidence in the gold market will have investors eventually stampeding out of it. If you hold paper do you really own gold will you stick around for defaults and bankruptcies ? If you allegedly have gold in a vault do you really want to store it on your premises to be sure you do not risk the vaults default and bankruptcy or will you scramble out and sell the paper and gold ? I repeat confidence in a market is everything, otherwise there is no market and it suits the Fed for Gold prices to tumble and tumble they have and tumble they will by hook or by crook. Only to be rescued by the Fed when it suits them. Chew on that conspiracy theory! Anyone with deep enough pockets and a printing press capable of squeezing the Fed as they undermine the gold market and cause panic. Never go against the Fed. Join them if anything and make money rather than loose your wealth by going against them, only then to blame them for doing what suits them and the USA best.

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Alan Harris
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Alan Harris
April 17, 2014 8:08 am
Reply to  takeprofits

b

cryptocoby
Member
cryptocoby
February 17, 2014 7:23 pm

Robert, the Fed is outside of U.S. jurisdiction. They can do whatever they want with no explanation or proof.

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takeprofits
Irregular
March 30, 2014 12:05 am
Reply to  cryptocoby

I don’t know why I waste my time since nothing Leslie says ever addresses the actual questions I pose to him, he just blithely ignores everything I say or distorts what I said.. Lets see if I can do a little better,. Leslie you say in your opening that I described the problems of the Federal Reserve as “temporary” which is disingenuous to say the least. My contention is that the FED was dealing with a badly flawed system design from its inception and nothing has been done since to actually FIX the foundational design flaws. The threat of a global melt down continues to exist and all the FED is doing is delaying the evil day instead of actually doing anything to acknowledge the flaws and fix the system to restore honest constitutional money.
Your convoluted reasoning is evidenced by your contention that, “still maintained confidence in the global financial system, is of course a very impressive achievement,” is laughable to say the least. Nobody I know has confidence in the system, in fact the evidence keeps piling up that more and more individuals and indeed entire countries are losing faith in the U.S. dollar because of mismanagement by the FED and are seeking other alternatives with at least 22 countries already agreeing to trade in their national currencies precisely to avoid the U.S. dollar. The next hilarious statement you make is; “historically over a long period of time the $ has proved to be a far greater store of wealth than Gold which produces nothing and costs money to store safely. ” Talk of producing nothing, what exactly has our fiat money produced except un-payable debt? Are you suggesting printed currency does not require protection from theft, what convoluted reasoning! Right, a dollar today buys 2c in an original dollars purchasing power, which is why it now takes 1300 of them to buy an ounce of gold, and if it were not for the manipulation of the bullion banks to suppress the price of gold it would already be double that. The next statement that challenges reality is this; “Just as the vast debts accrued after WWII paled into insignificance so will the USA’s debts in record time.” Really, and what magic event will turn the average one trillion U>S> deficit per year into even half a trillion against that $17, trillion accumulated debt when nearly half the nations is on food stamps to survive and 25% or more adults have no job or are at least underemployed? Students are graduating with an average of $20,000 in debt and can’t get anything but menial jobs that force them to live with their parents. How long can European countries expect to get bailed out by Germany, just to pay interest on their existing debt? The rosy picture you paint is about as believable as government propaganda. This is really funny, “The actual shortage of gold will in fact under these default circumstances cause gold to go down as confidence is entirely lost in the gold market and everyone bails out of the investment. So you think defaults on gold delivery by the Comex or bullion banks will cause people to lose faith in gold, you must be dreaming in technicolor. Its not golds fault, when people discover that the gold in Fort Knox may almost be gone, shipped off too China to meet increasing demand the loss of confidence will be in government and its lies, obfuscation and manipulation of markets.
It is the DOLLAR that will suffer the loss of confidence and competition to own gold will simply intensify, sending the price parabolic given its already short supply. Finally a statement I can agree with; “At times it is best just to get out of a market in which confidence is likely to be lost.” I agree, and number one on my list is paper currencies backed by nothing other than politicians hot air as they print astronomical amounts of increasingly worthless currency. Contrary to your assertions, periodic drops in the price of gold is solely due to manipulation by the bullion banks, and would not exist in a free market. Evidence of that is accumulating and documents that will stand up in a court of law are piling up with numerous lawsuits already in progress. The very fact that every effort to audit the FED for 50 plus years has failed should make every sound thinking person to ask what they have to hide. Adding to the suspicions is the situation with the German gold, it is not hard to figure out that the FED or U.S. government does not have the gold to deliver and once again as the PROOF becomes public knowledge, it is the FED and government in which faith will be deservedly lost. Your delusional reasoning seems to be that investors will lose, (note spelling) faith in gold once they have been cheated out of the gold they thought they bought based on false paper promises. I think it would more likely cause a loss of faith in “paper promises” and a heightened desire to actually own the real thing, adding to demand leading to higher prices as demand outstrips supply. Interesting that you use the term “by hook or by crook” so you are in effect admitting that the FED is run by crooks and you shouldn’t fight them because they will achieve their goals no matter what. Maybe you should consider the words of your famous countryman Edmund Burke who famously said; ” the only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is that good men do nothing” which you seem to be advocating. So you think a $17.5 TRILLION debt caused by FED policies is acting in the best interests of the U.S. I will leave you to your delusions.

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arch1
March 30, 2014 1:40 am
Reply to  takeprofits

Myron; Excellent expose. I agree with your conclusions. Only the delusional would think it possible to borrow your way out of debt or that delaying addressing the causes could help the situation. IMHO of course.

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John Harris
Member
John Harris
March 31, 2014 12:31 pm
Reply to  takeprofits

Well I am not about to try to debunk what Myron or Leslie say here – they both toss around numbers that I can’t verify or would even want to. But my impression is that Myron is far too pessimistic and perhaps Leslie a bit overoptimistic. I for one find my glass better than half full – always an eternal optimist and believe optimism is essential for being happy. But I know our debt has been accumulated over time and many presidents, and the latest spike partly from the Iraq war thanks to Bush and/or Cheney and the bank bailouts (under Bush) and then the stimulus under Obama. And I agree totally with Leslie that without those last two the world financial system would be a lot worse and we would all be far worst off (except for the added debt). But our debt is not just due to these few items mentioned above. It stems in large part from the loss of manufacturing jobs to first Japan and then to China as the losses accelerated due to the huge difference in the cost of labor there and here. But the rise of the global market that created the huge trade inequality between China and the west has made their workers richer, raised the costs of labor there while creating a middle class there and in India and will in time in other third world nations that currently do our most intensive labor jobs like making clothes. The rising middle classes there will buy our goods. China is also realizing it can’t live with the unchecked pollution of the cheap manufacturing either and so the cost of manufacturing both from higher cost middle class labor and from new pollution controls is rising dramatically in the far east. In reality the very global market that made our trade so lopsided and cost us so many manufacturing jobs is slowly beginning to even that out again. It already did with Japan – we no longer have huge trade deficits with them as we did before China took over. With our energy self sufficiency, manufacturing is coming back to roost here in the states once again. It will be slow and there are still third world places where labor remains too cheap to compete with but the playing field is getting more level, not more tilted. And that gives me great hope for a coming world economic boom that Leslie predicts and that the US will participate in that fully. With growing employment here and gradual inflation our governments will see higher tax revenues and begin to pay down debt. So long as we decrease our debt slowly, I see no problems, even if the rate will take hundreds of years – as long as we make progress on that total debt we will slowly grow out of it in the lifetimes of perhaps our grandchildren or their children. But certainly to speed that along I think an increased minimum wage would help and we need labor to organize abroad to demand benefits and better wages which will level the world playing field more, and we need the pendulum to swing back toward stronger unions here but that will only come when good workers are hard to come by, and jobs are plentiful. We have seen the wealth of the manufacturing world go dramatically more and more to the wealthy not to our workers and to pay down our debt that needs to balance again with more of the wealth going to the workers who in turn actually pay a much larger portion of their total earnings as taxes than the rich do with offshore heavens and low capital gains taxes. Don’t get me wrong the rich pay lots of taxes but the middle class is who pays the most in total into our treasury and the return of a strong middle class is what is needed most to pay down our debt and prevent new debt from adding to the huge debt. Myron makes all sorts of calculations on the present but does not see the changes in the world as a whole that are coming or could come to reduce the doom he sees, He is likely part right, but I think slow but persistent inflation and far improved tax receipts by our government will disprove his most dire predictions and make Leslie’s “delusions” much more the future reality. But this is speculation and hope, based not on present statistics that don’t tell us much when we can’t predict the future.

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arch1
February 18, 2014 6:40 pm

Travis; thank you for Bloomberg link. What is your take as to implications? I think that despite China’s absorbing $1.7 trillion U.S. debt will not keep up with U.S. determination to monetize. I never see commented on that in fractional banking systemt every $ charged on credit card increases money supply on top of what Fed is printing. Worldwide rise of shadow banking [outside of govt. control] ,electronic trading including increasingly automated FX trades & increasing inability to track or foresee Billions of individual decisions to buy or sell or neither [which make up global economy] makes future very uncertain. There simply is not enough gold in existence to have global gold standard.

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takeprofits
Irregular
March 30, 2014 12:13 am
Reply to  arch1

Your closing statement would only be true if you added; AT PRESENT PRICES!

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arch1
March 30, 2014 1:23 am
Reply to  takeprofits

Myron; You are correct. Price is a nebulous thing.

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Charles Dykman
Member
February 18, 2014 4:42 pm

Is real estate the solution for the naysayers? Were there foreclosures in the last several years? More than usual? Were farms foreclosed on in the years following 1929, ala Steinbeck, Grapes of Wrath? Just a few? Did the dust bowl exist then? Until the recession, cab drivers in California were buying $300,000 homes, knowing that next month they would sell for $350,000. And in 1929, shoe shine men were offering tips on the stock market. Though bad memories are short, real estate does go up AND down in market value. What is the record of securities since 1929 or so? Are they more valuable now than then? Doomsday predictors have always sold all their possessions and waited for the moment of doom to arrive. All were disappointed. And all said and were saying: “Well, maybe I was wrong as to date. Now I know that it will come on September ??, 2014.” Sell all your worldly possessions if you haven’t done so before. Charles

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ROBIN STEEL
February 18, 2014 5:13 pm

There is a lot of gold in proven reserves. Most of it is owned by RIO & BHP.
They don’t mine it, even though their cost would be low.
The biggest share holders are the same people who run “Big Oil”.
The only threat to the status quo that puts them in charge of the world, would be cheap hydrogen.
That is coming in the form of “Bacterial Hydrogen” which uses natural processes to break down biomass, (or any carbon based life form) into hydrogen of purity sufficient to fuel that long promised “Fuel Cell”. This “short path Krebs Cycle” is the best way to obtain the “Hydrogen Economy” that we have been promised for the past 100 years…
It will take about 20% more biomass (by weight) to allow us to use this process in place of Oil and Coal.
There may be a bacteria cocktail that will convert Coal and Oil into Hydrogen too.
It is probable that in the near future you will be able to put your kitchen and garden waste in to your “Bio Refinery” and use your Hydrogen Fuel Cell (HFC) to power your home and auto.
It is more probable that large scale electric generation will be “bio gas” based. Which could be used to power high speed transportation of mass goods to market.
Among “problems that must be solved” are:
Political resistance from “Vested Interests”, which don’t want to lose subsidies (direct nor indirect) that gives them “control” (direct and indirect) of governments.
( Examples of the lack of awareness of our present “Leadership” are things like:
The push for High Speed Passenger Trains, when we will soon have non polluting High Speed Personal Autos, thanks to Google and Apple self driving car systems.
Programs like “CalCharge” that spend huge amounts to back losing technology. )
Finding ways to increase fuel crop amounts without cutting down forests and reducing available food supplies…algae, seaweed, grasses, and reeds are among the best choices for that.
Gold is just a good way to put things into perspective…the old 1oz can buy a good suit analogy…
There is a lot of gold on and in the earth. Howard Hughes thought he could get it out of seawater, and if his company keeps making deep drilling technology better, maybe we will just tap that molten core, where most of it is…
So in light of recent developments, it might make sense to invest in education and research, and to get our kids out in the natural world where the answers to poverty and war lie….but that takes too long, and doesn’t make good “consumers”..
I expect the next high speed ” Personal Transport Pods” (PTP?) will use self driving software, to guide relatively non polluting vehicles.
After Mercedes, and GM roll out their HFC cars next year, they will be built in China by Warren Buffets Build You Dream Car company, or maybe those TaTas will do it…
I KNOW, that no red blooded American Woman will easily give up her PTP, no matter who makes it.
What this all means in the short run is that we need to get money out of politics, have a verifiable voting system (Google vote, anyone?), and educate everyone about what their own true interests can be…without the hindrance of the “Oil Oligarchs”…

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bj
Member
February 18, 2014 6:31 pm
Reply to  ROBIN STEEL

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.

arch1
February 18, 2014 6:57 pm
Reply to  bj

bj; Is Socialism “trying to borrow yourself out of debt” & if that doesn’t work use “other peoples money” to cover?

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fundouks
Member
fundouks
March 8, 2014 4:03 pm
Reply to  bj

pf-says:
march 8,2014 at 3:30 pm.
Mr.Travis,I purchased 5000 shares of western grathite & another 5K shares of american graphite.so far I have not seen any movement at all.Are these scam companies? please let me know thanks!!!!!!

takeprofits
Irregular
March 30, 2014 12:17 am
Reply to  ROBIN STEEL

I agree that “vested interests” are perhaps the biggest threat to human progress and the two main vested interests are government and the Central Bankers and Central planners, they are the primary defenders of the stays quo.

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bosley
Member
March 30, 2014 1:37 am
Reply to  takeprofits

Yeah. Vested interests are a huge problem. But its everyone’s vested interests. There is absolutely no consensus anywhere. All I hear is strident bickering “sound and fury, signifying nothing”. As long as the people are polarized, the powers that be have absolutely nothing to worry about. Things are going to have to get a lot worse, (bad enough for people to put aside their differences and work together) before they get better. If they ever do get better.

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arch1
April 2, 2014 8:35 pm
Reply to  takeprofits

Myron; I absolutely agree,,,When central planners come in thru door freedom flies out window,,,,so said my former Russian neighbor. He had much experience of beloved leadership of former Soviet Socialist Republics. He says he sees familiar things occurring. It is remarkable how wealth seems to accrue to Government class as it is stripped from private citizens.

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WA1
Guest
WA1
September 29, 2014 10:10 am
Reply to  takeprofits

And big oil Myron…

In reality, the FED took delivery of the European’s gold, not for safe-keeping as is popularly stated, but as collateral against the Marshall Plan funds given to Europe to allow them to buy things they couldn’t build/produce for themselves, because their industry was gone, or geared towards armes and munitions, but also because of the wherewithal to pay for them was long gone.

The Fed also took delivery of the U.S. gold in 1933, so they could lend to Roosevelt who wanted to fund his new deal, to put America back to work.

The problem for the Banksters is that in order to manage the decline of the dollar, they had to let some of the Gold go overseas to China – the rising superpower.

China now supposedly has 5,000 metric tonnes according to Opdyke, but by my calculations, they are closer to 7-8,000 tonnes
(1tonne = 1,000Kg = 1,000 x 2.2lbs = 2,200 lbs avoirdupois)
(1ton = 20 x 1cwt = 20 x 112lbs = 2,240 lbs avoirdupois)
(cwt = a hundredweight (8 stone of 14lbs each))
(lbs = pounds)
(Kg = Kilogrammes)

China has been importing Gold through several entry points, but only Hong Kong has reported their figures. Beijing, and Shanghai have not.
In 2013, they allegedly imported over 2,000 TONNES (METRIC) which they had re-cast from LBMA 400oz bars into 1Kg bars in Swiss refineries, who have been working flat out 24.7.360.

Opdyke has reported that circa 200 tons per year has gone from U.S. vaults, but this does not include Gold from England, and/or all the Gold they have mined, and bought at spot prices from mining outfits that they either own, or from artisanal miners that they have been accumulating from. None of this is reported anywhere.

(http://moneymatterstoo.wordpress.com)

W.

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arch1
February 18, 2014 6:52 pm

Robin; If you truly believe all those wonders are imminent you should certainly entrust investing in them to your new My ira.

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Barry Shaw
Member
Barry Shaw
February 19, 2014 7:05 am

I love Travis but in this report he swerves a number of interesting (possibly critical) points made by Stansberry. No nation can survive by getting so deeply into debt and printing money in an attempt to get out of it. This critical problem is compounded by other nations ganging up to trade in other currencies to replace the US$. This is starting to happen. Look out for the warning signs, including announcements that groups of nations choose to trade commodities, including oil, in other than the US dollar. Another sign is the head of the Fed telling you that there is no crisis.

Do not think that mighty America is averse to a financial crisis when the money ship is sinking due to grossly excessive government spending and waste and industry going elsewhere.

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