“Treasury’s Gold Glitch: Make Money AFTER Gold Rises” Sjuggerud

"Secret Currency ... Outlawed for 41 years… Now LEGAL Again. This Unique Gold Investment Launched the Largest Family Fortune the World has Ever Seen..."

By Travis Johnson, Stock Gumshoe, October 22, 2008

Those of you who have long toiled in the dusty, grimy classrooms of Gumshoe University will probably recognize this one — it’s an ad that has been around for years, with adjustments and variations depending on the market’s pulse and on the price of gold.

The essential promise is that Steve Sjuggerud has found a “secret currency” that is gold, but outperforms gold. So what’s the promise this time?

Today, with gold having enjoyed a nice run up to $1,000 or so per ounce in the past year before falling back to below $800, he’s promising that he has found a way for you to still get in on the momentum — because he has an investment that goes up after the gold price rises.

Sounds pretty cool, no? Imagine if we could do that for other investments, just wait for them to go up and then say, “hey, I’ll take some of those shares after all … Fire up the time machine, please!”

It’s almost irresistible. So what is it?

Well, I feel almost obliged to share with you a little of the hard sell from the ad, since it’s not so fun if you don’t have your little greed synapses firing …

“FORGET collapsing stocks, bonds, real estate, and mutual funds. Now that gold prices are up, there’s an opportunity for you to safely triple your money or more, thanks to a glitch in the U.S. Treasury Department…”

Ooohhh, government glitches and secrets! The mainstay of the newsletter ad, good stuff.

“Everybody knows that gold is a safe investment in times of economic chaos–that’s why the U.S. mint recently ran out of gold bullion coins to sell to investors (source: The Los Angeles Times).

“But few Americans realize what happens after gold demand jumps and prices rise…

“In short: There’s a U.S. Treasury Dept-created “glitch” in the gold markets, which could give you gains of 665% or more after gold prices rise. You could see these gains no matter what happens to stocks or the overall economy… and with almost zero risk.

“I can practically guarantee you will not see this opportunity discussed in any newspaper or on any television program. And I’m sure you won’t hear about it from any broker or advisor.

“But right now, because gold demand has increased, and prices have risen, you can safely make a fortune… even if you’ve never bought a currency, stock, or gold investment before.

“In fact, you need only about $100 to get started. But you don’t need a brokerage account or even a bank account.”

Excellent! So what is this “glitch?”

It has already made lots of folks fabulously wealthy, of course — the letter cites a couple examples:

“The New York Times recently reported that one of the current owners of the Boston Red Sox baseball team used this exact currency vehicle to amass a fortune, worth more than $15 million.

“The paper also reported that a fellow named Stephen Fenton recently made $6.6 million thanks to a similar gold currency trade.”

The glitch was the period from FDR to Nixon, between when Roosevelt signed the order forbidding private ownership of gold bullion, and when Nixon rescinded that law. So yes, what we’re talking about here with this glitch are gold coins.

And while they may not be on the front pages of many newspapers now, you probably remember seeing the headlines back in the first part of this year, when Bear Stears was collapsing and the price of gold shot over $1,000 for the first time (in nominal dollars, not inflation adjusted). There were stories everywhere about people enthusiastically buying up gold coins, or about other folks melting down their jewelry.

That’s also when I last wrote about a similar ad from Sjuggerud that introduced me to this “secret currency” — you can read that original article here if you like.

I don’t know if there’s a lot of enthusiasm for this topic in Gumshoe land — I doubt that there are a huge number of numismatists in the vast and unusually handsome Gumshoe readership, but I’ll try to explain the situation as best I can.

So yes, Sjuggerud is an enthusiastic gold coin investor — in fact, he’s pretty enthusiastic about lots of fairly unusual investments, which makes him fun to follow. I’ve read his articles extolling the virtues of collectible musical instruments and Macau condominiums in the past, always worth a thought or two.

The biggest distinction in gold coins is between bullion coins and rare or collectible coins — with the bullion coins trading at a somewhat steady, usually reasonably small premium to the current price of gold, and the collectible and rare coins trading at usually a far more significant premium. As I read the ad, essentially Sjuggerud’s argument is that in the runup of gold prices over the last few years, collectors were not as quick to accept the sea change in gold pricing and the premiums for collectible coins shrunk, but now that gold seems to be remaining at historically high prices, those premiums should grow. That’s how you benefit from buying gold after gold has had it’s run (or benefit even more if gold goes back up again, as some folks are always predicting).

Gold bullion coins are the contemporary coins struck by national mints, usually, and they typically include an ounce of gold. The most famous, and by far the most widely traded, are the American Eagle gold coins — these are an ounce of gold, alloyed with a bit of silver to make them more durable, and you can buy them from the U.S. mint or on the secondary market at what is usually a relatively small premium to their melt value. As of this moment the new coins from the mint are selling at a hefty premium to the melt price of gold, last I checked the 2008 American Eagle is going for $1120, while gold is down around $780 an ounce. I’m not sure why, though it might have to do with the fact that they suspended sales of some coins earlier this year due to high demand. You can buy uncirculated older Eagles for more like $830, and other gold bullion coins, like the Canadian Maple Leaf or South African Krugerrand, typically are slightly less than that. With the price of gold so volatile, and gold trading on the world’s fear and emotion to a large degree, there’s no telling where it will go next, but in general you can usually get bullion coins at a premium of well under 10% of the melt price, and sometimes the less popular ones trade for just a few dollars over melt.

When Sjuggerud is talking about being able to invest in these for “as little as $100” he must be talking about the 1/10 ounce coins, which are also offered by most mints and have been for a number of years. The smaller the coin, the larger the premium, so you would pay a bit more for the convenience of a smaller denomination — while the American Eagle with one ounce of gold is sold new for $1120, the 1/10 ounce coin goes for $125. The same disparity exists for older coins on the secondary market, though the prices are lower for both in many cases.

I have no idea which if any of the current bullion coins might someday attain a premium valuation or become rare or collectible — some of them already have, during years when designs were changed or there weren’t as many made, or at special anniversaries, and a coin expert could probably tell you which of the older coins of the last 20 years or so might be more promising in that regard. But the coins Sjuggerud has typically been most excited about are the older and rare collectibles — specifically, the most popular and one of the most beautiful gold coins, the ones whose run ended with FDR’s order in the early 1930s: The St. Gaudens Double Eagle.

That’s actually where the Stephen Fenton story comes in from the NY Times, too — he’s a British coin dealer who came into possession of one of the very few 1933 St. Gaudens Double Eagle coins that were struck after Roosevelt halted the program — none of these coins were distributed legally, but a number of them got out of the mint anyway. One of those came into Fenton’s possession, and he got arrested for owning the illegal coin — they later made some sort of deal that involved auctioning off the coin for an ungodly amount of money, and he got to share in the proceeds.

The St. Gaudens was around for 25 years or so — starting in 1907 and running until 1932 (legally). It was designed by Augustus St. Gaudens, a famous sculptor (I believe one of his designs is also on one side of the current American Eagle coin), at the behest of the previous Roosevelt (Teddy), and it contains almost an ounce of gold. If you’re interested in gold coins and think you might like to get into these kinds of higher value collectibles, it would probably be worth your while to do some research — but so far this year, at least, Sjuggerud has definitely been right on this.

When I first wrote about these coins back in March, for that previous Sjuggerud ad (if I haven’t misspelled his name at least once today, I’ll be amazed), the lower-quality end of the “uncirculated” certified coins (Mint State 63, or MS-63) were selling for around $1150, with gold at about $950, and Sjuggerud rightly called attention to the fact that this premium has rarely been so small.

Today, though the spot price of gold is much lower, those same coins are offered for a minimum of about $1,400 by most online dealers that I’ve checked lately (some of the years and variations are much, much more expensive). The ones that are of higher quality, MS-64 or 65, are significantly rarer and more expensive, too, and there are all kinds of things to think about if you buy these — including the group that did the rating, and the trustworthiness of the dealer, etc. etc. Whenever gold prices go up the scam artists leap out of the woodwork, so if you end up deciding to investigate a coin purchase I’d urge you to go slow and be careful.

These particular coins are probably as close to a liquid commodity as you get in “rare” gold coins, since they were widely used in the early part of this century and there are probably still half a million or so of them in collectors’ hands. There are enough of them to create a good market, they’re beautiful, and they exist in several different variations, some of which are very rare, so there are a lot of fans and buyers for these coins.

If you’d like to start your research, Sjuggerud has been behind this idea for a long time and there are many older articles by him and his affiliates available — a couple examples are here and here . There’s also an interesting article by a coin dealer (who’d also like to sell you something, naturally) here that explains the historical vacillations in coin premiums and gives the basics of the grading systems — and some warning about fraudulent coin grades.

So … are you excited about squirreling a few gold coins away in the freezer? Or has the recent drop in gold prices scared you off as the dollar is regaining some ground? Is it all about the Indian jewelry market, or is this the “end of the world” trade? Do you like modern bullion coins, pre-1933 St. Gaudens or other gold coins, or something else?

I’ve heard it said many times that one should always have enough gold to bribe the border guards (or, for the less colorful, that having 5% or so of your portfolio in gold hedges against inflation or currency fears), and I do personally own a few gold coins, but I’m far from an expert on anything numismatic, or on the yellow stuff in general. Feel free to share your opinions below, but take mine with a grain of salt.

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81 Comments on "“Treasury’s Gold Glitch: Make Money AFTER Gold Rises” Sjuggerud"

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Carlo
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October 22, 2008 9:04 am

Great article. As usual.
Cheers
Carlo

Graham Jervis
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Graham Jervis
October 22, 2008 9:46 am

Great Stuff Travis, even if i wanted to invest in gold coins, i wouldnt even know where to begin. The new newsletter from Stansberry that i find interesting is Porter’s Put Strategy Report, i hope one day you can check it out and let us know your thoughts on it.

Brian
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Brian
October 22, 2008 9:48 am

Steve S. has pitched Gold coins for 4-5 years now an has several good choice brokers. Having realized a double in profitable gains since 2004. Not bad at all. I am inclined for that at least another double in gains in less time. Expect gold to rise above 1600/oz in 2 years. A real possibility to me. Good Investing, Gumshoe

the mayor
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the mayor
October 22, 2008 10:45 am

The World Economy is in trouble……Gold will NOT go to 600 dollars again……It may not hit $1600 next year…..by to say it will go to $600 in this economy is ludicrous!

Elissa Stein
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Elissa Stein
October 22, 2008 10:51 am

Gold has fallen to $747+/- since Travis wrote his article. To do your own research, try http://www.golddealer.com and http://www.kitco.com. Besides the St. Gaudens, look at Liberty and Indian, too. These are all collectible U.S. coins.

For those who do not care to become coin experts, but still want to hold physical metal, nothing beats pampe suisse.

Mary
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Mary
October 22, 2008 12:35 pm

Gold has dropped dramatically in recent weeks because of mass liquidation on the part of Lehman, Bear and JPM and that crowd. Our gov’t is doing all it can to keep the value of the US$ sky high right now and since gold is always the inverse of the US$, we see the big drop. After the election, most expect the US$ to find a more honest level and then you will see gold rise from the ashes.

Lou P
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Lou P
October 22, 2008 1:20 pm
I’ll always remember 1980. Visiting a precious metals dealer I saw people screaming to buy gold at $800+ an ounce, arms waving freantically to get the dealers’ atention, having 10 ounces at a time shipped to their Connecticut homes to avoid the sales tax, and wondering what a 25 year olds high school teacher could do. I gotm bitten by the bug! Unable to afford gold, I purchased 100 oz of silver for each of my two sons at $14 an ounce.The next day it was up to 14. We were gonna be rich! And then reality struck. We watched… Read more »
Lou P
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Lou P
October 22, 2008 1:21 pm

sorry, it went from 13 to 14 (not 14 to 14).

theaccusersgift
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theaccusersgift
October 22, 2008 4:00 pm

Yes, one should always have enough gold, silver, and green cash to bribe the border guards. Try the green cash first, because it may be worthless across the border. See the “Lord of War” for the proper techniques (the “Lord of War” was about gun running).

Just ask the Jews in Israel formerly from Iran about gold and border guards if you don’t believe me.

david
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david
October 22, 2008 4:08 pm

I bought gold at $660 in the 80’s and silver for $3.83. The difference now and then is the massive printing of money out of nothing which “is” going to cause inflation and the devaluing of the dollar. Can it go lower, yes but is it going higher? Has to.

richard0826
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richard0826
October 22, 2008 6:41 pm

Thank you GumShoe for another worthwhile article. I had enjoyed it and also like to read comments from other GumShoe readers.

SOL
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SOL
October 22, 2008 9:20 pm
Thanks for the great article as usual. I have subscribed to Dr. Steve’s service for many years and have found that he is almost always correct- if a bit early in his picks. I wait about a month or two before I buy his latest reco as he has a huge number of readers and they act as a herd- stampeding into his reco’s with no limit on their price. I purchased his MS63 $20 gold coin reco’s years ago, and almost have a triple on the purchase- they are also beautiful pieces of art which I enjoy looking at… Read more »
Karen
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Karen
October 23, 2008 11:46 am

The above comments are so interesting. I remember 1980 as well. We didn’t have any gold then, well, maybe a few little coins. After this particular era of high gold prices was over, my husband was subscribing to True Wealth, by Sjuggerud, wherein he was suggesting investors buy the St. Gaudins coin and it was a bargain at $250. He kept hammering away at this idea. Oh, that seemed like a lot of money for one little coin. We didn’t buy, of course. Sigh…..

stefano
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stefano
October 23, 2008 2:04 pm

hei travis
you’re the best teaser in my mail almost always
thank’s a lot for your great job

Barbara
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Barbara
October 23, 2008 8:22 pm
Travis, thanks for another excellent article. Just a few thoughts on gold and silver. You hear many people touting the GLD and SLV ETF’s but rarely is the Canadian CEF mentioned. There is some question as to the honesty of GLD and SLV, but CEF is actual metal stored in a secure Canadian vault. It can not be shorted. How will the government bail us out of the mess when the printing presses burn out from over use and our creditors come knocking? They will once more confiscate our gold (check the Patriot Act.) However, silver is not considered the… Read more »
Torkel
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Torkel
October 24, 2008 1:23 pm

With regards to the “printing of money”, can someone refer me to a site where I can learn things like; How and who authorizes it?, is it backed up by bonds?, all the time or just sometimes, actually the mechanics of the whole system. what is the immediate effect if any, or long term effect. Is the Fed entirely? Administration? Congress? It is a complete mystery to me and can not answer questions from my kids.

John
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John
October 24, 2008 6:52 pm
Guys, Don’t kick yourself, for every winner I saw there were 10 losers. Sjuggerud worst call was the Icelandic Long Bonds and the Krona. If you’re not familiar with the situation just Google Iceland Krona and sit back and read. In the last few weeks now the krona was near worthless and actually went no-bid for several days. Hate to see what you would have done trying to get your money out of that one. All the banks were nationalized and they are arguing over billions of British Pounds on deposit through Icesave (Google that one too) in accounts now… Read more »
John
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John
October 24, 2008 6:57 pm

….and if your really not wanting to sleep at night – Google ‘Office of Comptroller of the Currency’ (in response to the previous question about money and where it comes from) and glance at the latest published financials and what position the banks are in vis-a-vis derivatives. Last count there was $200 trillion with a ‘t’ in outstanding exposure. You will then realize that $700 billion is a joke for “a bailout” and only the beginning. Eventually, in my opinion, the dollar is toast, and, also my opinion, it’s being done by design.

Larry
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Larry
October 24, 2008 7:25 pm

What is your conspiracy theory John (the rationale behind the intentional devaluation of the US$ would be interesting to know up here in Canada…..as our currency sinks to new lows daily).

david
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david
October 25, 2008 7:25 am

“Eat, drink and be merry for (pooh) tomorrow it or you may be gone.” Fear not.

david
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October 25, 2008 9:49 am

Jumpin Joe Biden gauarentees an major international incident within six months if Obama gets elected. Seems with current deflation gold will drift lower with commodities then jump if Joe B is right next year, or sooner if Isreal gets spooked with an Obama win.

Roy Derksen
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Roy Derksen
October 25, 2008 9:51 am

Question, Is God judging the nations for violating the principles for prosperity in the Bible, and for the shedding innocent blood? How about forcing acceptance of sodomy? Seems America is not the only one being judged.
“If my people, who are called by my name, would repent, I will heal their land.”
Maybe Jihad is the balancing part of the equation, as the heathen nations were in Bible times? Should we say God Bless America, or, America repent!?

Robert Brown
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Robert Brown
October 26, 2008 7:13 am

Hello:

Thanks for the hint on CEF looks Good, jmo.
Try EBay if your looking for gold or silver coins. Many good dealers and holders selling.

Rob.

Graham
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Graham
October 27, 2008 10:45 pm

Thanks for the heads up on Dr. Steve Sjuggerud, PhD. I received an email via Agora Financial Services. It all sounded like a scam to me. Reading GumShoe explains Sjuggrud’s scam.

John
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John
December 18, 2008 4:56 pm

Does anyone know how I can buy gold bars in Australia ?

I’m fearful that bars bought in Canada or the US will somehow get lost on the way to Oz.

I want to go to straight to the horses mouth, not via trainers strappers etc !

Any response will be greatly appreciated.

John

Alan
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Alan
January 9, 2009 1:42 am

I just came across a teaser by Greg
McCoach promoting his newsletter with the headlines:”Double Gold Profit With Unique Investment Tool”.
The advert. claims that it is one
investment that pays TWICE the gain
that gold delivers, e.g. 1% gain pays 2%, 50% pays 100%.
It points out there’s no investment club to join, no special
account to join to get in, and it is completely liquid. It is also traded on the NYSE.
This looks very attractive, in view
of the expected upward move in the
price of Gold.
Does Gumshoe, or any of you have any clue as to what this (stock?)
is?

Alan.

farley 5
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farley 5
January 9, 2009 9:59 am

There are a slew of Leveraged ETF’s on the market. I guess your guy is pushing DGP – the double Gold Long. Please read the prospectus, etc. It alsco could be UGL.

SoYouThinkYouCanInvest
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March 8, 2009 1:30 pm
I have subscribed to the free Daily Wealth newsletter for a few years now. I have noticed a disturbing tendency by Dr. Sjuggerud to market high risk investments as low risk. If they work out, he loves to flaunt the numbers. If they crash and burn, you will not hear a peep. The best example is what happened in Iceland. Daily Wealth had dozens of articles that were pushing Icelandic government bonds in 2005-2007. When it all blew up last year, not a word about it in Daily Wealth. I have documented everything in a new article on my site… Read more »
Johnson
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Johnson
March 8, 2009 3:08 pm
Hello, am writing to you at this time to advertise the availability of our main product, alluvial gold in bulk quantities. As we represent a large number of local artisan miners, we are prepared to provide quantities of up to 200 kilograms of 22.5 to 23 karat alluvial gold monthly. Following is information concerning our product: Quantity: 200 kilograms available monthly Quality : 22.5 to 23 karat alluvial Au Origin : Ghana , West Africa Price : $19,500 per kilogram Assay reports provided by Geological Dept., Accra , Ghana . Our firm is in possession of the Gold Export Certificate… Read more »
Rich
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March 20, 2009 12:39 pm
Using the ol’ retrospectoscope, we see GLD bottomed out at 66 on 10/22/08 and SLV at 13.40 on 10/28/8 after extreme bullishness at their tops in March of 2008. Coins have had a risky market of their own: Buyers beware of the following: 1. Buy/Sell spreads on even bullion coins can be wider than the sky, over 100% premiums, locking in an immediate loss plus shipping, handling, insurance. We saw this with US Mint gold/silver American Eagles: catalog.usmint.gov Maybe that’s why they went to a 7 day return policy. 2. There is lots of counterfeiting of collector numismatic coins, despite… Read more »
Mike
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Mike
March 22, 2009 8:47 am
I secured gold bullion in a self directed precious metals IRA through Goldstar in TX. The bullion itself is parked in HSBC. If HSBC went under the storage is relocated by Goldstar. That was my rollover. I used Monex and it went pretty smoothly. I feel sorry for people that are trapped in IRAs where they work which are locked into the stock market. I purchased coins and bars for bullion melt value. Rare coins are certainly a good LONG TERM investment, but I am thinking liquidity for the Short term now that the U.S. seemingly is eating it’s own… Read more »
AlanH
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AlanH
July 3, 2009 5:50 pm
Its now july 09 and its amusing to read old comments about $600- $1600 per oz. Its now £920 so on average the pessimists have it,just!!! Personally I cant think of anything dafter than holding real bullion. How do you sleep worrying that someones creeping through the back window… perhaps its the wife leaving you a Dear John letter !!! And what do you say to the police…. Yes officer, heres the photos of my stash….. no I certainly dont sell drugs. The only gold I ever bought cost me 1/2 million in 2 years and all I ever got… Read more »
Bill
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Bill
July 3, 2009 6:43 pm

Alan… while gold has not skyrocketed as predicted – neither has the dollar tanked.. yet!

Always remember stocks are denominated and redeemable in dollars… a dollar is a unit of account – whereas an ounce of gold is a unit of value. Being unprepared for the “end is nigh” is foolish irresponsibility to put it nicely. Those prepared don’t lose anything if it doesn’t happen – whereas the unprepared may lose everything if it does!

Joana Sabetudo
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Joana Sabetudo
July 4, 2009 10:55 am
Since many stocks drop or rise on a daily basis by at least 1%, an easy way to make money is to buy and sell certain stocks when at least 1% in profits can be made. 250 trading days, 1% daily, 250% return potentially. Oil stocks are great for this as they tend to drop or rise much more than 1%. Chose a stock that pays a dividend and you may capture that as well. I have been trying this since December 2008 and even on a stock such as BRK-B I have managed to double my money while the… Read more »
discount realtor
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September 7, 2009 2:47 pm

nobody knows where gold will be in a year, it is a good idea to have it as part of your portfolio as a hedge.

Brandon
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Brandon
September 8, 2009 9:14 pm

I don’t understand why people think gold would matter in an end of the world scenario. The only commodities that will really matter in that scenario are guns and ammo. Pray that it never comes to that!!!

gayle shuman
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November 10, 2009 1:18 pm

I have a subscription but am having difficulty accessing with my password

henry
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henry
November 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Hi all Just to say that this is the most interesting and educational site that i have found, so much input.Keep it up people and a BIG thanks to travis for putting this together,absolutly brilliant. I have never ever had questions that i asked answered so quickly , and scencibly answered too. 110 out of 100 points awarded Big Thanks Henry lima peru
David
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David
November 22, 2009 7:11 pm

Does anyone know anything about the gold ETF, GTU, in Canada? It is nearly unknown, whereas everyone has heard of GLD. Is there a reason I shouldn’t be in GTU?

GaryD
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March 28, 2011 1:38 am

Hi, Stephen:

I'm interested in doing the same. Can you tell me what you look for when using the scale and the ruler. Thanks!

Gary

Stock Trading Course
Guest
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April 4, 2011 3:15 am

I'd suggest something to measure volume with for irregular bars. Maybe a graduated cylinder. The volume should correlate exactly to the weight (be sure no air bubbles remain attached to the bar!)

As for measuring coins, you'd need all the dimensions for every coin you were checking.

Anyone know where to find that information?

markf
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markf
April 4, 2011 7:26 am

I almost bought some Saint Gaudens. I called Asset Strategies and they said they would sell me coins in perfect condition for a slight premium over the cheapest competitor. Passed on the deal because I think coins are not very liquid. Mistake? I'm overseas btw.

Real Louis Vuitton Handbags
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0
May 5, 2011 7:37 pm

If you have a large stock of these labels are a possession, transports you into a whole new level of style and class. If you know your brand, you know where to invest and what to look for. It is important to keep the models on the market, so you know how to use to spot an original.

Brad
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Brad
May 19, 2011 9:23 am

But it has NOTHING to do with owning gold bullion, gold mining stocks, gold mutual funds, gold options or futures, or any other type of gold investment you've likely considered before.

Here was a quote from his most recent publication. Now it says "nothing to do with owning gold bullion" Does anyone know whats new? Thanks.

Steve F
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August 23, 2011 8:37 am

This seems like prescient advice, now that gold spot prices are over $1,800. I just got finished listening to Sjuggerud's latest video, the script of which is actually just a copy of his sales letter, if you'd rather read at your own pace, rather than listen at his.

I agree, he has had some very interesting investment ideas, such as master limited partnerships, which gained some exposure with the recent bidding war for Southern Union.

Cool Soupy
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Cool Soupy
October 22, 2008 10:30 am

But gold will see 600 – 640 before it sees 1,600.

Look at the charts!

No coins for me!

Elissa Stein
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Elissa Stein
October 22, 2008 10:59 am

So long as the dollar remains strong, there is no new international “incident” and commodities fall, gold will fall,too. As soon as something happens, or the Fed’s flooding the markets with US Dollar causes the dollar to drop against other currencies and inflation to rise–including commodities inflation, gold will increase again. To say we will not see gold at $600 is to ignore the macro picture.

So, it is still a good idea to hedge with DZZ, the 2x inverse gold ETF.

Simon Ho
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Simon Ho
October 23, 2008 2:52 am

I hate to say anything negative about gold since its historical hedge value re: real inflation verses nominal inflation but Mr Paul weber is correct. The only exception to this dictum being REAL M3 ANNUAL INCREASES in Western Developed Countries. It appears even the Central Bank villains can’t hold a good thing down indefinitely…..

Cindy Schermerhorn
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Cindy Schermerhorn
October 25, 2008 4:49 pm
Hello, During the contest you mentioned QMNM as a stock that was going through bankruptcy and that it could soar afterwards or go out. I was curious so I called my stockbroker who is with AG Edwards and he said that if a stock comes back after it goes through bankruptcy, it is totally defunkt and worthless and will have to come back under a different ticker symbol. He also said that different states regulate the purchase of defunkt or very low stocks and make it illegal to purchase them. My stockbroker is great and he will always give you… Read more »
Tom Swiatek
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Tom Swiatek
October 22, 2008 2:08 pm

Hi Elissa,

Can you furnish a URL to the pampa suisse site? Does one need a Swiss bank account?

Thanks.

Elissa Stein
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Elissa Stein
October 22, 2008 2:22 pm

You can buy at http://www.golddealer.com. Comes in 1 oz, 3.5 oz and 10 oz sizes.
They are very easy to deal with, but be prepared to wire-transfer funds before they send the bullion out. Gold is down to 720 and change as I write.

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October 22, 2008 3:18 pm
Boy, I just took some time to review this site and a few of the other big online dealers. The prices have gone even more haywire than I thought — almost nobody even has 2008 Eagles in gold or silver in stock, and older ones or generic silver bars and coins are mostly not available either, or they’re going for almost 50% over spot. That’s a frightening sign of investor mania, though of course it doesn’t mean the prices won’t go up. If you don’t believe the world is coming to an end, you can always buy the ETFs for… Read more »
JesusIisLord
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October 23, 2008 12:21 am

Of course, financial analysts tend to view the gold coin market as a place for nuts and kooks. “If the world really does fall apart, you’d be better off buying ammunition,” But it depends on how apart the world falls. If commerce were still done peaceably, gold coins would be a good thing to have in your pocket. But, he’s right; when things really fall apart, you’d be better off packing heat than Krugerrands.”

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Paul Weber
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Paul Weber
October 22, 2008 8:48 pm
Good thoughts, however the price of gold is ONE of the most manipulated (by guess who, central bankers) economic items (outside of JPYen). The price of gold is readily seen by John Q. Public as a ‘fear factor’. The Dow is the other but of course watched in both good and bad times. Keeping John Q. Public and in line with ‘the plan’ is a main concern of a central banker especially in times of a manufactured or real ‘crisis.’ In times of financial ‘stress’ keeping gold low by selling short using ‘paper-backed’ certificates (vouched for be even more printed… Read more »
Paul Weber
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Paul Weber
October 22, 2008 8:51 pm

sorry … forgot to delete the ‘and’ in line 5 and needed to put bankers’ in 2nd to last line.

Roy Derksen
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Roy Derksen
October 25, 2008 9:34 am

Paul, It seems to be you are right on the money! The IBs have it down to a fine art, having created enough derivative digital money in their portfolios to control much bigger markets than gold.
To an extent, they use the stock market for a money pump. Right now they seem to be bent on pumping money out of average Americans to better create conditions for a NWO OWG.

John
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John
October 24, 2008 8:05 pm
I’m not one of those conspiracy guys but if you look to the Trans-Texas Corridor, I don’t think it’s any mystery that with high fuel prices it’s easier to truck things through Mexico and then to Texas and on to Canada than it is for all of those cheap Chinese goods to come in through California and be trucked through 4000 miles of roads. They can essentially cut their cost in half by going Texas to New York and East Coast and Eastern Canada. Amero? Maybe. Profits – definitely… On the devaluation – first – you must look to the… Read more »
John
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John
October 24, 2008 8:14 pm

Don’t fret on the Canadian Dollar. It’s only falling in response to 2 things: first, commodities are falling and that means less demand for it, second, hedge funds are unwinding a lot of dollar related shorts and carry trades, so the dollar is becoming stronger every day. Once the music stops though, and the inflation kicks in, and demand for the dollar weakens, Canadian money will once again be at parity to the dollar or better in my opinion.

Cindy Schermerhorn
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Cindy Schermerhorn
October 25, 2008 5:34 pm

Yes, I remember those days back in 1980 when everyone went crazy just like they are doing now. Watch and see….in about 5 years gold will sell for about $350. an ounce….or less. Gold dropped down to about $685.00 just today.

Custer
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Custer
October 26, 2008 4:34 pm

Barbara –

I hold rare gold coins, silver bars and SLV shares. The big drop in silver value has been exacerbated by the unwinding of futures contracts between non-holders of the metal, so I expect no recovery there for a while.

With the rest of the world going in the toilet, and the dollar rising, no recovery there until we get raging inflation, which is probably inevitable.

Perhaps my 12-tr-old granddaughter will profit from my holdings before she’s old enough to vote.

John D.
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John D.
October 26, 2008 6:47 pm

Please don’t bring God into the market. He has as much influence as Buddha, Santa, Mohammed, the Easter Bunny, Satan, the sacred cow, or other figments of your choosing.
Watch your spending, pay off debts asap, save what you can, and settle for low,, but safe returns.
And remember a “government” bail-out is a false term. It’s a taxpayer bail-out.

jdplus33
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jdplus33
November 7, 2010 8:36 am

Neither the Bible, nor the Koran, nor the Tibetan Book of the Dead foretell of this worldwide crisis, except in as much as they all acknowledge "human nature", i.e., greed, lust, savagry, fear, and vanity. The pendelum swings both ways – no nation or tribe is immune from the zero-sum nature of life on this planet. Please don't preach religion on this board; there are other places for that.

TomC
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TomC
October 27, 2008 9:31 am

Where specifically on the Comptroller website does it refer to $200 trillion in outstanding exposure? I have been all over the site and could not find the information you referred to.

John
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John
October 29, 2008 11:19 am

http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/release/2008-115a.pdf

This is a whole report on the state of the currency. If you go to:

http://www.occ.treas.gov/deriv/deriv.htm

it gives a list of all derivatives from all the major banks under OCC control.

John
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John
October 29, 2008 11:34 am

Go to: http://www.occ.treas.gov / deriv / deriv.htm and select a Quarter. The whole report is very interesting but you can skip down to the graphs and charts throughout and see that this 2nd Quarter 2008 had $183 trillion in outstanding derivatives.

Sorry about the link – apparently posting links creates issues with the posting engine.

John
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John
October 29, 2008 11:26 am
Money is pretty much created out of thin air – or rather the money supply is increased – the true root of all inflation – in two important ways: first, on the demand of the Treasury by selling bonds to the Fed – which are in return capitalized with a basic book entry of “ok – here’s this much in dollars” kind of thing and second, it is also levered up (supply increased) by banks who can loan up to 10x their reserve capital (at the current 10% ratio) meaning that for every $100 you deposit in the bank, the… Read more »
John
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John
October 29, 2008 11:29 am
If you are really interested you can Wikipedia: Money_supply which has a complete article on it. It is surprising to some that money is created that way – but it has been for hundreds of years – starting with the ‘tally stick’ in England. Wikipedia: Fractional_Reserve_Banking When creating a currency the first thing a sovereign does is institute a tax to collect it back – which is why – when Wilson sold out the country to the bankers in 1913 – they created both a Federal Reserve – which is neither Federal nor a Reserve – but a made up… Read more »
John
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John
October 29, 2008 11:39 am
Scam is a harsh word – but in my opinion the information isn’t worth what you pay for it since it’s already dated and somewhat passed it’s prime. There was a great macroeconomic newsletter written by Jude Wanniski but he passed away a couple years ago and his children couldn’t really get it the same so it went away. It might still be available for institutions though. Wanniski also wrote a book which I thought was a really good read called ‘The Way The World Works’ – if you have a chance to buy it or go to the library… Read more »
gordy kistler
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gordy kistler
November 9, 2008 1:52 pm

in 2000 they increased the money supply, in 2005 they have been decreasing it. as for gold? watch the imf for inselling of gold,which will cause gold to crash.

Mike
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Mike
December 28, 2008 9:22 am

Look up an outfit called the Perth Mint.

jcpi
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jcpi
April 4, 2011 8:29 pm

The best is direct at the mint in Perth WA

TREBOR
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TREBOR
March 14, 2009 9:12 pm

here comes the AMERO. skyrocketing inflation will never be ALLOWED TO happen. the “Amero” will BE INTRODUCED when the dollar drops below 55. AND THE us ARE TO THEIR KNEES. 2010. wake up seduced americans! are you all the result of TV’s BRAINWASHING? and propaganda? buy gold 1 oz coins and silver bullion.

Regina
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Regina
March 24, 2009 12:39 am
Hello Travis and everyone. I came upon this site while researching a long-winded, too-good-to-be-true ad by Dr. Steve Sjuggerud, for the opportunity to invest in the “gold glitch.” He states, “it’s a little-known U.S. government investment vehicle, first made public by the Federal government in the early 1900s, under the direction of U.S. Treasury Secretary Charles Barber.” However, Mr. Barber never held that title. He was actually (according to Wikipedia) “the sixth Chief Engraver of the United States Mint from 1879 until his death in 1917. He succeeded his father, William Barber, in the position. Barber’s best-known designs are the… Read more »
Mark
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Mark
April 4, 2011 7:24 am

He's not hiding it. If you subscribe to True Wealth, you can find the recommendation and sell in his archives.

Stanl
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Stanl
July 6, 2009 11:56 am

Joana, the approach you describe is intriguing,but it seems to me you might have to make a half dozen trades per day to make money and if you lose on 1 or 2, is all the gain gone

spreadtrader
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spreadtrader
November 22, 2009 9:31 pm
What do you want to know? Technically, it’s not an ETF, but a passive trust with one objective (holding gold bullion for its investors); and it trades like a closed end fund. Presently, it trades at a 4.5% premium; and it’s somewhat overbought because the price of gold is overbought. I like buying it when it is announced that it is issuing more shares because the market treats it as though it is being diluted and the share price then plummets. (Check out the share price on January 9th and May 6th.) Actually, new shares are issued so that the… Read more »
Jaynea
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Jaynea
March 13, 2011 11:12 pm
Great post – and everyone should read The Creature From Jekyll Island! The Bankers of the world pulled the biggest heist ever perpetrated on mankind when the "Federal" Reserve was created which is no more Federal than Federal Express! Writing checks on accounts with money that doesn't exist – then charge the government (taxpayers) interest on the money you just made up! What a racket! And we thought Goldman-Sachs, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, etc. were the big crooks. LOL! Look of the Creature From Jekyll Island on You Tube. You be amazed – and apalled at our "Federal" Reserve system.
Mark
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Mark
April 4, 2011 7:22 am

I came so close to falling for that one. I really respect Sjuggerud, but he made it sound like Icelandic bonds were not only high yield, but also super safe because that's the way Icelanders are. Turns out, Icelanders are real risk takers due to their fishing heritage according to Michael Lewis. Now, the money managers in Iceland are women because they are not risk takers.

I put my $10,000 into Perth Mint Certificates instead which are now worth almost $40,000.

Frank
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Frank
April 4, 2011 10:40 pm

Loss in weight is equal to the weight of the water displaced. Archemedes Principle. Use a spring balance that is based on Hookes law.

Gravity Switch
Admin
11
May 19, 2011 10:01 am

The old ad said that, too — still the same tease, to the best of my knowledge, they're just splitting hairs. "Gold Bullion" generally means bullion coins, things like modern American Eagles that have no collectible value, collectible coins are considered distinct from bullion coins which trade based solely on their gold content.

nihil
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nihil
February 17, 2013 10:15 am

Jesus recommends packing heat? A sword maybe.

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