Stellar Biotechnologies – The real deal or just more tulip bulbs?DISCLAIMER: I am long shares of SBOTF and may add to the position at any time.
”Even blind squirrels find an acorn every now and then”
OK, I know .. there is already plenty of discussion re Stellar Biotechnologies (SBOTF) on the site. Since Travis posted the tease from Nick Hodge in early July, the stock is up a hair over 100% (my Special Situation account sends many thanks for that one!). The reason I’m opening this thread is because the majority of comments from those of us interested or already invested in SBOTF are being posted under another wonderful – yet mostly unrelated – thread by Doc Gumshoe that talks about Alzheimers and possible causes/treatments/cures. Great stuff, but not fully germane to the topic of SBOTF. So, tho seperate the two discussions, I thought I’d try this so we can focus on each of the topics independantly.
That said, here’s some commentary about SBOTF that I have gleaned from the original tease, tracking the price action since July, reading member comments on this site, and studying anything and everything I can find about the Company and it’s product, Giant Keyhole Limpet Hemogobulin, a/k/a KLH.
First, a little peeve I’ve developed; the actual name of this animal that is the central focus of the business. I’ve noticed a trend of sorts by readers to refer to the Limpet as a ”snail”, ”escargot”, or something along those lines. While some may be using this as a light-hearted way of referring to the animal, it is not any of those. Please, use the proper name – as silly as it might sound. New readers could easily dismiss the entire idea and be misled otherwise. No disrespect meant to any who have done this, but I think it’s important we stay on track.
Now, some factoids for you.
If you haven’t done your due dilligence yet, the place to start is right here on this page. In the upper right you’ll see a box that says ”Teaser Tracking.” Click on that. The page that comes up is a list of the teases which Travis has posted over the past many months. Second from the top is the one re SBOTF. Some good tidbits of info right there. But what you want to do is look all the way over to the right and click on the link to the original tease posting. Open that and you’ll get the full story that Travis wrote when he first uncovered this tease (produced by Nick Hodge) and is a solid foundation of info about the company. Read it – two or three times to get an understanding of what SBOTF is all about.
Next, if you can find it, try and get a post that has the original video that Hodge did to tease the company with. In it, he (Hodge) interviews a couple of the company’s top executives and takes the cameras outside the room totalk with another employee about the ”farming” process that SBOTF has spent years and millions developing and patenting. You’ll get a pretty good visual inspection of the plant itself, the ”grow tanks”, and the Limpet. Good stuff. By the end you’ll have a fair overview of the company and what it does. FYI, the video tease runs about 40 minutes. It’s the first 25 minutes or so that will interest you. The remainder is what all teases consist of, overblown and repetitive pleas to get you to subscribe to the newsletter service that the promoter has to offer. Save yourself time and money by skipping that stuff.
A few takeaways from the video and additional research:
SBOTF has been around since the late 1990’s, working on how to extract the blood from the Limpet without killing them (they have done that and gotten patents on the process) and how to raise them in captivity in order to ensure a continuious supply of the animals to work with. This ”farming” process has, for the most part, been perfected and SBOTF can now raise them from fertilization of sperm and egg to maturity. They have a lifespan of some 30 years, and coupled with the patent-protected process they developed for extracting the blood without killing the Limpet, the company can now say with assurance that they can provide the Big Pharma with all the KLH they need to conduct clinical trials and produce the drugs they develop once FDA approval is granted. And – this is a big ”and” – they are the ONLY company in existence that can do this at the present time. The many patents they hold may ensure that to be the case for years to come.
Did I mention that KLH cannot be synthesized? So far nobody has been able to do that, so the supply of KLH from SBOTF seems to remain the only game in town.
Stellar Bio has yet to turn a profit. Sales and not much to write home about. That is mainly due to the small supply available and that SBOTF has focused on R&D in the past moreso than actual KLH production. That’s my best guess – I can’t verify that but seems to be the case. It is changing, however. The R&D is still in full swing, but the ability to produce and sell KLH is starting to ramp up as witnessed by increasing sales volume. It’ll take time but those increasing sales are coming.
In the wild (ocean floor), the Giant Keyhole Limpet has never been found ANYWHERE in the world other than in the small colony (estimated to be about 100,000 animals) which is just offshore from the Stellar Bio plant in Ventura County, CA. The enviromental community has been getting more and more concerned about the harvesting of the Limpets from this colony since there apparently aren’t any more around. Whisper talk about possible extinction have begun to surface, although no official governmental action regarding a ”protected specise” has yet been issued. This is why the farming of the animals has been crucial and why Stellar has such a leg up on any possible competition. If the Tree Huggers get hold of that idea, the ability to harvest the colony could – and probably would – be severely impacted.
Recent price and volume action has been fast and furious. As more and more people are becoming aware of the company by means of Hodges’ tease and thing such as this discussion, volume has had days that were near three times the average six months ago (175K shares average vs. some days now running around 500K). And most of this is upside volume indicating increasing demand for shares of a small float. This of course leads to highr prices as we are witnessing as I write.
For now, the gravy train is tearing down the track. The question is, when will demand for shares be curtailed as investor thirst for a bite of Limpet pie become satisfied? When will Nick Hodge back off this promotion, letting the press subside and therefore lessening investor awareness (the stock is not covered by any analyst, anywhere, that I can find, nor is it held by any mutual fund or investment management company). If and when this interest backs off, what effect will that have on the stock price? Trees don’t grow to the sky … or do they?
I can’t answer those questions. Just like you, I can only hold ’um and not fold ’um – yet. That day may come, and that is why I suggest anyone long the stock keep a DAILY eye on it. I’m making no prediction whatsoever about where the price will go over the next several weeks or months. In the interest of full disclosure, I have already taken some money off the table just to partially protect the quick profits I made since purchase. I sold about 30% of my initial position when that part became valued around 50% of my original investment. What remains is valued today right at the same $ amount I first put in. The amouunt I pulled out gives me full protection of some 50% of my original investment. Would I be better off today if I hadn’t done that? Yes. I would, because the price continues to rise. Will I be better of for having made thaat sale if the price stumbles and falls in the near future? Again, yes, I will – if the price falls. Some wise man once said ”you can’t go broke if you take profits” and I believe in that. Me, I don’t care for the idea of going broke, so I’m perfectly happy with this concept. No regrets about putting actual money in the bank, so to speak.
Comments? Concerns? Insights? Let the fun began!
Sincerely,
Your Resident Blind Squirrel
Jim Skelton
This is a discussion topic or guest posting submitted by a Stock Gumshoe reader. The content has not been edited or reviewed by Stock Gumshoe, and any opinions expressed are those of the author alone.
I invested in SBOTF for the long term. I was drawn by Nick Hodge with his very informative report about this rare sea snail off the coast of Ventura California. I did my research, same steps that Mr. Skelton covered. I bought this rather late at .77cents and I expect to buy some more when the stock dips and panic sets in below .77cents. With that said, the stock is very risky and in the early stages prone to short sellers. The company is going to need more cash for R & D and for expanding into additional farms to minimize the possible danger of losing the entire farm to a disease. Contracts are signed with some of the big Pharma, so the rise in share price will start sometime next year. The 12 mill investment by some private investor does not bother me one bit, it seems to be a businessman and investment is guaranteed a profit @ $1.05 p/share. to $1.35 p/share. All we can do is wait until this special purchase goes in the books.
There’s an important meeting in October of this year that unveils the use of KLH to combat some disease. I expect the price to jump after that for a short term and that’s when the short sellers will cause the drop. This stock has the potential of reaching $5 p/share but 2 years from now. Stellar is the only company doing this, it holds the patents for the production and harvesting, Big Pharma needs KLH to rush their drugs asap for FDA approval. KLH is also very expensive to make and Big Pharma has deep pockets. We just need to be patient and go long.
Good Luck everyone.
R. T. Barzallo
Rookie investor.
R.T., I’m interested in SBOTF, but there are some inconsistencies that I’d like to understand. Does SBOTF really say they are the only company doing this? ThermoScientific sells mcKLH from keyhold limpets grown in mariculture (i.e., “farmed”) rather than in the wild, according to their website. A copy-and-paste is “Inject Mariculture KLH (mcKLH) is KLH that has been harvested from limpets grown in mariculture rather than captured from the wild.” See
http://www.piercenet.com/browse.cfm?fldID=01010102
Also biosyn sells KLH. A copy-and-paste from their website is “biosyn returns the animals back to its natural habitat, as it is a humane approach as well ensures that the animals recovers readily…”. See http://biosyncorp.com/klh/why_use_biosyn_klh/
I tried getting an investor presentation from Stellar’s website and was unable to. I’ll look again.
Good comment R. T. Despite being ticked off by what I see as some definite misdirection and manipulation by the company, I’m hanging in there. Jesus Jim not everything is about you. I didn’t call you any names, but if you think the shoe fits regarding the pompous moron comment then that’s your choice.
Well, boy’s enough of the peeing contest. We all would like run with the big dogs, however most of us do not have the deep pockets to do so, if so most likely you would not be on this site. I never read that Stellar was the only company with KLH or the only farm. Stellar is the largest farm operation of farm raised stock. Stellar produces the HIGHEST QUALITY KLH, and is capable of suppling large quantity for the many studies being conducted world wide, Stellar has the contracts and pattens for the methods. If the other producers of KLH can prove them selfs , perhaps they two will receive big dog backing and some of my investment money.
How do we know that the wild keyholes live after giving blood and than being returned to the ocean by other farms?
Deborah, thanks for the blurb for us to stop already with the testosterone-fueled duels. This isn’t the place for that whatsover. I’m somewhat embarrased I let myself get bogged down in that manner. Never again.
Now, on to your questions about exclusivity of manufacture and farming Limpets.
When I saw a previous comment from someone whose name I cannt recall re Stellar not being the only company to be producing KLH nor the only one to have perfected the farming techniques, I must admit I was a little taken aback. I was under the impression that the company indeed did have these advantages and there were no real competitors. And the only place I can imagine where I could have come to believe that was from the original tease video that was released in May or early June. I’ve watched that thing three times and taken notes so as not to forget what was said. Fortunately, as is my habit, I archived it in a file so I can call it up easily. I’ll watch it for the 4th time tonight and post again what I hear Hodge claim. If indeed neither he nor any company employee he interviews makes those assertions of being the only company in the game I’ll be surprised. But the brain is a tricky thing – sometimes we hear what we want to hear no matter what is being said. Ask any couple after a verbal squabble who said what. What they heard during the heat of the moment is often light years away from what the other really said. Been there, done that.
Back with the rest of the story later tonight.
The Blind Squirrel
Jim Skelton
PS – Hodge re-released that tease a couple weeks ago. Totally unchanged, no new info. Easy to verify the unchanged nature of this “new” release because he quotes the stock price of around $0.60 – just where it was when the first release occured.
Hello Jim,
Would you mind sharing the link for the teaser video?
I’ve been looking for it the past 20 minutes with no luck.
Much appreciated,
Ricardo.
P.S. The person who commented about Stellar not being the only one producing and farming is James Fernow, he replied to R.T. Barzallo in the comment #21.
Just a note of congrats to those of you who are invested in Stellar that understood the market action due to the financing deal, retained the faith in what is happening at the company and the management thereof, and used yesterday to add to positions at those bargain prices.
One day does make a finished race, but it looks as if all is still on track. SBOTF at $1.27 as I write …
The Bilnd Squirrel
Jim Skelton
Closed at high of day on strong volume 1.32+. Glad I was able to get shares out weak hhands at $1.11. Broughht down my avg. Too bad wasn’t some of thhose that went for .95-.99
Back to cruising altitude momentarily just some turbulence ladies and gentlmen
Oh and jim. Thanks for thhe blockbuster story. It relates to one of my current businesses aside from the lesson on investing. Little extra inspiration/motivation to keep pusing on.
Greetings again to the Gumshoe Nation:
I think we all may be overlooking something important re Stellar Biotech. Let me explain.
All discussion here for the past month seems to have been centered around two subjects;
(1) the “farming” of the Limpets and whether or not SBOTF has an exclusive on that or if there are other companies out there that are also involved in developing this process. From what I’ve read on these posts, it’s pretty clear that there are at least two other companies that are in various stages of becoming successful at that.
(2) How much revenue can SBOTF eventually generate from sales of KLH to Pharma companies and other medical research firms? After deducting all costs of doing business from the revenue you have profitability – or lack thereof. And it is that profitability (EPS) that in due course drives stock valuation. That’s an oversimplification of this process, but serves for this little discussion.
We all seem to be totally focused on that sales/revenue idea, and the actual pricie of a gram of KLH, as being the be-all – end-all of what will make us money as stakeholders. In the original tease for SBOTF, Nick Hodges threw out valuation number of from $30,000 to $900,000 (!!) per gram for KLH. Where did those numbers come from? Off the top of his head or out of another part of his anatomy? It’s never explained. And – much like the concept of “hearing what you want to hear” I discussed in a previous post, we heard $900,000. That was a number we wanted to hear, right? We didn’t register the qualifer word of “could” which makes a world of difference. So we ought back off a bit in expectations regarding that number. A really, really BIG bit.
Another member of our Gumshoe community did a writeup just a couple days ago that put a more realistic light on what KLH is selling for. That post is somewhere above this one in the lineup and worth you time scrolling up and finding to read. He/she qualified the numbers with sources but I don’t know how absolutely accurate they are. I’m giving the benefit of any doubt to them though. Seems far more realistic that what Hodge used and might serve to bring all of us who, like me, may have had our rose-colored glasses on just a little too long here. Hold on now – I’m not saying we’re wrong to have very high expectations for the future of Stellar. We have a tiger by the tail, one I believe is going to lead us to very high returns given time. We may never see the 20,000% returns Hodge touted, but maybe 1000% instead. I’ll take that any and every day of the week!
What is the actual amount that Stellar is getting per contract from these other companies? It’s not disclosed. Company statements do allude to it as being sufficient to cover company operating costs and production costs at a level that is acceptable to both parties. The implication is that they aren’t trying to wring the last penny out of the sale by pricing the KLH at high levels. Why not? Why not the minimum $30,000 Hodge threw at us?
It has to do with relationship building and the future revenues that may be obtained if that relationship is nurtured and matures into a long lasting partnership.
Before I go on, an aside. For those who have been jaded over the past week re the financing deal and resultant hit to share prices, and may now be asking “why won’t the company tell us what they are geting for the KLH? What are they “hiding” from us, the stakeholders? Are they pocketing huge sums for themselves at the expense of us “little guys?”
The answer to that is that it would be foolish for Stellar to make public the amount they charge these budding “partners”. If a competitior had that information they could and I guarantee you would use it to undercut the price Stellar is charging and take away the business. Not a good thing. So that kind of information is kept private as it should be. Nothing nderhanded or devious happening here. Just good business practice.
So with that background set, what is it we – or many of us – are overlooking as regards revenues?
It’s been right there in front of us the whole time. But it’s not sexy, not as attention-grabbing as the KLH production and valuation is. Here is what we’ve missed.
You’re aware (I hope) that the agreements Stellar has been signing with these Pharma and Research labs gives them the ability, perhaps exclusive, to provide the KLH they need to do clinical trials in developing new drugs and treatment vaccines. But in addition to the revenue that those sales give Stellar, there are – here it comes – also provisions in those contracts whereby, if a drug is eventually developed, approved, and makes it into the mainstream sales of that company lineup, Stellar will get ROYALITIES from the sale of that drug for as long as it is produced and sold. That is part of the overall business plan the Officers and board at Stellar have had from the get-go, and it is potentially HUGE!
If any person or company can get themselves set up to recieve royalty payments from the sale of some product or another for a very extended period of time, they have something which is wonderful. They don’t have to lift a finger, invest any additional money, or do anything other than get the check on a periodic basis.
This part of the business model was given a very short and subtle mention in the tease. It’s also been mentioned in a couple previous press releases and other such things. Yet no one seems to take notice of this.
Stellar already has this sort of agreement in place as part of the overall agreement with some of the companies they work with. It will take time to see it come to frution and there is no guarantee it will – remember, it’s only if a drug is developed and makes it to market that this would matter. But, I feel, eventually some will. And that cash machine will start to spew out money to Stellar, perhaps sums that are far greater that what was gotten from sales of KLH to start with.
I have first hand, personal experience with deals of this nature. In1998 I started a little business that involves synthetic oils and lubes. I focused on the motercycle aftermarket parts and repair shops, specifically those that worked with Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I’ve been a rider since 1963 and love that sport! Anyway, I chose to take a route with the company I had signed on with (Amsoil) to run my business not as a direct product salesman to individuals, but instead to work as a wholesaler, opening retail accounts with those bike shops. The shops would sign on as dealers to carry the products, place their own orders directly with Amsoil as needed, and I would get commission checks. For doing nothing more than staying in touch from time to time as I wished. I stopped activitely working this business in 2004. But every month I still get a transfer of funds from Amsoil Corp. directly into my checking account. That will last for as long as the shops contine to sell the products orr I die. Sweet.
That’s the power these kind of arrangements can have. Stellar is positioning themselves to eventually get revenues based on sales of products developed and offered by their affiliated partners. And we, as stakeholders, will benefit from those arrangements.
I just thought all of us might want to add this part of the business plan into our thinking. It’s not all about KLH. There is more afoot here than meets the eye.
Wishing you successful investing ..
The Blind Squirrel
Jim Skelton
PS – So you don’t get confused about my business life, this little business I mentioned wasn’t my main source of income, ever. I did that just as an aside from my professional life as a Financial Consultant. It was fun and gave me an excuse to ride “Baby” around South Florida and visit motorcycle shops to see what was new and shiny I might want to buy and bolt onto Her. Win – Win situation!
Stellar up again on strong volume!
I don’t usually do this but considering your experience, maybe we should talk business
Wow and on that note stellar explodes to $1.61 new 52 w h
Everyone was so talkative after the financing news lol
I gotta say. You look at most other investment publications, and they are weak — very, very weak. But when you look at the wealth of knowledge on the Gumshoe network, it is so impressive. Between Travis, Myron Martin, and Mr. Skelton here, there is such a wealth of knowledge here. And different perspectives and styles of investing. And the comments from the peanut gallery are a cut above. I’ve been investing for 5 years, and for the first time I’m starting to feel confident in my investing. Kudos to you guys, and definitely “I am not worthy.”
It’s been a roller coaster ride since the private offering.
And it will continue being a roller coaster ride.
I’m wondering if many people realize just what a “roller coaster” this action has been. Consider these facts:
(1) The current bid / ask spread is $0.07. Huge by most measures for a stock trading around $1.35.
(2) Yesterdays (Wednesday) volume was about 850,000 shares. Nearly 5X the average daily volume we were seeing just two weeks ago.
(3) Over the past 5 trading days we’ve seen an intra-day low of $0.98 and an intra-day high of $1.63. That is a 50% spread between high/low trades Yep .. I said 50%!
(4) Over the past 12 months the stock is up just a tad over 300%. Again, yep .. a 300% gain in 12 months.
Given just those few factoids about this little tiger we call Stellar, is it any wonder why we would expect any dfferent kind of price action? This is not for the faint of heart.
The only real question is which way will a trend now develop? Onward and upward, or down and dirty. I’m thinking that the next two days is going to set the tone for awhile. It had better be up – I got my heart set on a new 60″ HDTV with all the plasma goodies + a wireless surround sound system and DVD player to boot so I can watch SEC football like I’ve never seen it this season. And I plan to have SBOTF finance that little bit pleasure. In fact, it already has, and more .. but can I now keep it?
Stay tuned .. this ain’t over by a long shot!
The Blind Squirrel
Jim Skelton
The balance of power seems a bit equal in this $1.35 range which is also the sell price for the PP.
The private offering has undoubtedly had a deleterious effect on the stock price. I’m actually pleasantly surprised that the dilution of the price hasn’t been greater given that the company basically added almost 20% to the market cap. at $1.05 and then another almost 10% at $1.35. Given that, the stock price is holding up surprisingly well. All we need now is some good news and I think the shares will rocket up again.
Agreed. Trading is very balanced right now.
So glad to find this forum and mix of ideas and information! Will try to summarize my thoughts/situation in 500 words or less:)
Got the tease video about 2 weeks ago, as part of my daily inbox investment barrage. Watched the whole thing. Fascinated by the premise and the science (have a science/healthcare background). Read everything I could find in the past week, and I mean everything! Started to get “that feeling”, to quote Jim, despite the trading halt and also not qualifying as a “qualified (?) investor. That’s just part of investing, and I agree with others that what Stellar is doing is capital intensive, and has been years in the making. The R&D costs alone on a project of this magnitude would probably shock all of us.
Have read their poster presentations and research thus far, but what really stopped me in my tracks was the recent memo about having the exclusive worldwide patent rights to develop a vaccine against C-diff!!!!! Between the fact that immunology is at the forefront of disease prevention and treatment, that KLH, and ONLY KLH has the molecular properties necessary to make any of these ideas possible, that it can’t be synthesized…..the hairs on my neck are standing up….. When Stellar, or,whoever owns Stellar at the time, perfects this C-diff vaccine, and I think they can and will, it could blow us all away. Hospitals will use it like Tylenol (it’s an epidemic in hospitals and nursing homes, and you can take nugget of wisdom to the bank:).
OK, so I am late to the party perhaps, but having a long-range mindset, is there any reason not to get in at $1.40? Usually I’d be kicking myself for not getting in for half that, but oh well…What also has my blood stirred up is not just the national presentation they are giving this month but the presentation next month at a prestigious international science meeting in Australia I think. You don’t get invited to speak at these events unless you have something big to present. I fear the stock price rising after this. Someone opined this rise would be short-lived, because of short sellers? Can someone explain ? Thanks for listening everybody.
Jana, thank you for joining us. Yes, you are right. This has the potential to be a blockbuster…the hairs on your neck type.
These two conferences will gain more exposure and will bring in many new buyers. The volume has dried up a bit so we are going to battle back and forth in this range. The market makers are in control right now and they’ll want load up before a surge. Be patient. The shares are very oversold at this point. I still believe it is a great buy at these levels. Once we get some positive news, we’ll never see this range again.
is this “the pause which refreshes?” Rocky road right now–down about 7% for the day as I write this–time for a cast iron gut as I remain a believer with over 10% of my portfolio in Stellar. This is likely an excellent time to add to one’s holdings, but I can’t risk any more at this point. The private placement has thrown the steady rise of the shares into a bumpy ride for the time being. If the company continues with good news in coming weeks this will just be “the pause which refreshes.” The upside to this company remains great. Thanks for joining us Jana–excellent first comment. It’s nice to see other intelligent/educated folks seeing the upside that I and others are seeing.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I think it’s time to jump in, and I hope (and pray) that you are right Sean, that after the good news is out the price will soar. But I’ve also lost enough in the market to know there are no sure things. Still I have more hope than fear about Stellar. Again I am so thrilled to find this forum!
Jana, Prayer is essential. After all this wonderful creature was made by God himself. I like your reference to prayer. Good luck to you.
I intent to buy more the closer it goes to $1/share as I feel it will again bounce up this fall. I have owned and sold it before. Love the technology, like the stock. This is a great group of knowledgeable people. Thank you.
Hey, good luck to all of us. David, I do hope this is the “pause that refreshes”! And thanks for the kind words; Sean, if it really drops to $1 I’ll smile for you as I grit my teeth…actually I’m happy at my entry point (way under the 1.40 I spoke of earlier). Hope this makes it to the board; I’ve had a little trouble posting with nothing showing up on the board. Under “website” I put “none”. Is that important? I don’t have a website.
I just read an article posted on the KLH blog on a site called stockhouse that quotes Norm Chow of Stellar stating that 50 keyhole limpets can be harvested twice a year to make 20 grams of the KLH protein which is worth $100,000. The article also has some great insights about KLH being used in cancer vaccines. The article seems to be from an interview and is dated September 3, 2013. I hope this helps everyone. The stockhouse site has some really good info but, unfortunately seems currently dominated by two guys arguing with one another (fordman and goldbarron).
My opinion of what is currently happening with the stock is that it is trying to find it’s range between $1.25 and $1.50. I actually see this as a promising sign as I expected the watering down of shares to keep the stock considerably lower for much longer. I’m glad I didn’t join the Lemmings and bail when the stock backtracked to $1. I think the stock will start a consistent upward trend again in the near future. However, any negative news could send it tumbling. Such is the risk of a microcap, no matter how promising.
This is the real Sean. Not sure who my fellow poster is but the last two were not me. My last post was the Sept. 4 post.
I think you are in great shape at any of these prices. There is serious accumulation going on with some very sophisticated investors. Today’s volume is proof of that. The Market Makers are going to manipulate this and get the best price they can before a run up. Meanwhile, there are many investors who saw $1.20 again and re-upped. This issue is not for the weak. Long term, we are going to see a great return. The short term should be extremely volatile. Again, welcome and happy trading.
Sorry to the first original real Sean. I am the second Sean. We are different people as there is two of us. Good luck to all. Keep up the research as it helps us all. That’s how we should be. Just needed to clear that up. Sean F.