written by reader Sun Gas

By xiexgp@gmail.com, February 13, 2014

Sun Gas Do you havae any ideas about ”sun gas”?

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Matt
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Matt
March 5, 2014 5:42 pm

I believe you mean hydrogen fuel cells, not using hydrogen-burning engines. There were many problems. Here are the main ones I remember:
1. Low temperature startup
2. High cost of non-corrosive electrodes necessary (platinum, palladium)
3. Use of a gas as fuel
4. They do not increase or decrease quickly for changing power drains, and the efficiency goes down if not operated at their optimally-designed power transfer rate.
There were other problems I don’t remember as much. I think the proton exchange mebrane, which is basically a solid electrolyte would degrade and need replacing after time. There was also a high cost in machining the fuel channel passageways in the wafers on both sides of the PEM. These also had to be of a material that could withstand a high acidity environment. Some companies tried using coatings on stamped-metal parts. You are probably speaking about the problem I listed as number 4 above, which is not such a big problem if you feed the electricity to an intermediate storage for quick usage such as a battery. Then the fuel cell can operate at a fairly constant rate to recharge the battery. I think the biggest problem of all was the usage of hydrogen, which is a gas. You can’t store no where near as much energy in a gas as you can a liquid, and when storing as a gas, you have to use high pressure tanks, which are dangerous when in an accident, and they still can’t store enough energy to get the vehicle that far – kind of comparable to the ranges of full-electric cars, although battery technology has improved a lot since then, making full electrics more practical that fuel cell electrics in my opinion. Some work was done with a methanol (liquid) fuel cell, but these clog up the PEM with the carbon that gets released from the methanol. On-board reformers to extract hydrogen from liquid hydrocarbons were also investigated, but these are extra expanse and complication, and wastes energy, and the reforming process produces as much CO2 as burning the liquid hydrocarbon. I see no benefit in your idea of an electrical square wave generator. Fuel cells produce DC current. If you power an AC motor, you can turn process the signal to get AC, but how would this improve the efficiency of the fuel cell itself any or allow it to provide quick changes in power demand?

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Francois
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Francois
March 6, 2014 1:55 am
Reply to  Matt

Let the industry decide. There are many ways to produce hydrogen. For transportation, delivery, the CNG is the precursor. For storage, look QTWW.
Fuel cells are just fine. BMW and the likes have had cars running on H2 since the turn of the century.
In California, Honda has been selling H2 cars for several years, and in Japan, entire town bus fleets run on H2.
Fracking shws more and more weaknesses. it is not the panacea, not for the long term. Some estimates that fracking will end by 2020.
Hydrogen will have risen by then.

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Richard
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Richard
March 6, 2014 12:08 am

ETOGAS, a private German company, has succeeded in converting renewable electricity into synthetic natural gas, thus enabling it to be stored. The ETOGAS power-to-gas method converts green electricity into CO2 neutral, renewable natural gas. Review this press release.
http://www.etogas.com/en/the-challenge

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Herman Rutner
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Herman Rutner
April 1, 2014 2:42 pm
Reply to  Richard

Elaborating on my earlier blog, ETOGAS is a viable process for converting CO2 reacting with low electrolytic hydrogen made from water and low cost electricity into natural gas or methane for use in current gas distribution systems. But methane as fuel is less feasible for powering cars or trucks requiring costly and hazardous liquefied storage of methane, best via fuel cells. In contrast the proposed SUN GAS process presumably involves formation of a liquid fuel like methanol from CO2 and hydrogen as used in racing cars. Even if feasible, methanol has low energy content, about 50% of isooctane gas, about 65% for pure ethanol biofuel, and 100% for methane. And most of the hydrogen used in both processes using CO2 regenerate water as steam, 50% for ECOGAS methane and 33% for SUN GAS if methanol.
The energy utilization clearly look dismal using more energy than producing it!

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John Otradovec
Member
John Otradovec
March 6, 2014 1:12 pm

If DiGeorgio is behinded, it probably will smell like gas because he believes to be an expert on many things. He’s pedeled foreign coins,carton cells,and is a silver expert I wan’t be supprised if he can turn cow flop into silver.

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