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written by reader Options, understandings and tactics

By megfk, April 25, 2014

Alan – We open here a forum for discussing options. It might be helpful to open the discussion with a copy of the paragraphs that I wrote 4/24 about options. I don’t know how to cut-and-paste that material.

Before I opened this discussion forum, I noticed a question about choosing a stock that might perform well as an option. I’ve already briefly addressed the subject…and would appreciate knowing about the thinking of others.

I have years of experience, but could not pass myself off as an ”expert.” I prefer that this discussion forum be a gathering of investors with an interest in options…with all of those with greater experience contributing things that they have learned. Our goal is to benefit one another.

This is a discussion topic or guest posting submitted by a Stock Gumshoe reader. The content has not been edited or reviewed by Stock Gumshoe, and any opinions expressed are those of the author alone.

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 29, 2014 7:40 am

Margaret. In #39, you said “We had our assignment of analyzing 4 stocks. I noticed….No one dared set forth here their analysis.”.

For what it’s worth, I did actually describe something of my process (possibly missing a step or two) for looking at MSFT, under the comments for #22. Either it was really bad, or you missed it. I vote for the former, but that could just be the lack of coffee talking.:)

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arch1
April 29, 2014 9:13 am

Meg; DRTX is optionable . I recently bought July 2014 $12.50 call & sold July 2014 $15 covered call spread. I expect DRTX to rise on coming announcement but not much. Do see my logic?

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Alan Harris
Guest
Alan Harris
April 29, 2014 10:52 am

Ah!! You think ‘Frank’ is an alias for Yoda too!!

arch1
April 29, 2014 4:41 pm
Reply to  Alan Harris

Alan; May the farce be with you.

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hipockets
April 29, 2014 6:56 pm
Reply to  Alan Harris

Margaret and Frank very clever are!

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Alan Harris
Guest
Alan Harris
April 30, 2014 3:57 am
Reply to  Alan Harris

Frank: and may the farts be with you.

arch1
April 30, 2014 4:19 am
Reply to  Alan Harris

Alan; Be watching me you must. Today home cooked ham & beans I ate. Levitating I am.
Chewbaca bedroll outside moved.

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tanglewood
April 30, 2014 11:00 pm
Reply to  arch1

Frank, so what is the window of profitability? Is it a max of $250 if DRTX goes to $15.00?

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arch1
April 29, 2014 9:43 am

To continue what i have previously stated & we are now talking selling,,For any transaction you must have a willing buyer & a willing seller. Presumably both may gain. Although horses don’t wager on people there are a lot of horse tracks,,,,not because of beauty of running horses I think. Different opinion/different motive is why we have options,,, where you are dealing with an uncertain future. If you hold a stock you may sell the option at a price you do not think it will reach in a certain time frame or at a price you are willing to sell the underlying stock. If you are correct you may gain extra income from your stock holding while waiting for new development or or whatever. There are other reasons too complicated to go into & which I am not able to simply explain.

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arch1
April 29, 2014 9:46 am
Reply to  arch1

I forgot to add that while buying an option entails no obligation to complete,,,SELLING DOES.

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James
Guest
May 17, 2014 10:34 am
Reply to  arch1

If you are selling a put or a call and the stock finishes above (put) or below (call) strike, you don’t have any obligation to complete, it will expire “worthless” and you will keep the premium you sold…

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Alan Harris
Guest
Alan Harris
April 29, 2014 11:22 am

I got this today so it could be worth the paper trade.

After delivering a substantial loss, a weak outlook, and announcing it would raise subscription prices, Pandora (P) shares suffered a a 23% drop in the past two trading days. The charts show there’s likely to be more bloodshed in the weeks ahead for the streaming music provider.

arch1
April 30, 2014 12:10 am
Reply to  Alan Harris

Alan; I think you may have found a good paper trade. I normally buy very few Puts But this looks to me that it may drop to $20 in a month or three. It would be interesting to buy a
Jun 34, Jun24 or even a ladder of more prices & check in a month how it is doing . On paper of course. I normally would buy close to the money but in some ways putting a larger price away from the money [altho you are putting more money at risk] in some ways lowers the overall risk and opens way to greater profit. Can’t quite see how to explain simply.

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arch1
April 30, 2014 12:12 am
Reply to  arch1

I should have added$ sign,,,,,Jun$34 Jun$24 puts

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 1:32 am
Reply to  arch1

If you’re buying OTM (out of the money) puts, they will be cheaper, because there is less potential to hit their strikes. They are all extrinsic value (time value plus volatility), and no intrinsic value.
If you buy ITM puts, however, you can buy less, because they are more costly. They have the intrinsic value of how far they are in the money, and also the extrinsic value of time and volatility. The nice thing about in the money puts [for buying, that is], is that if the stock stays flat, they will still have that intrinsic value when you’re near expiration. They will lose their extrinsic value, but retain the intrinsic. Since the OTM puts are only extrinsic value, you will lose much more with them (I.E. they will go to zero on expiration, and often very close to it in the week before, since time value degrades much faster the closer you are to expiration).

Example… XYZ is trading at $100. The $100 puts are trading at $5, and the $95 puts are trading at $2.
Buying 2 contracts of the $100s, and 5 contracts of the $95s, you will spend $1,000 on each transaction.

If XYZ drops to $99 by the Monday before expiration, you might see something like this. The $95 puts are now worth $0.20. You could sell them for $100–a $900 loss! But the ITM $100 puts, are now worth $5.80 or so, and you can sell those for $1,160–a $160 profit! Yeah, not much, but worlds better than a $900 loss.

If XYZ goes up to $100.50, and you hold until that same time, you might see the $95 put priced at $0.01, and the $100 put priced at $1.00, which is still a $500 loss, but even still better than a $999.99 one.

Thus my case for ITM options, when going long with no short legs to offset the cost.

People sometimes buy large lots of OTM calls, on the off chance that a stock will go up. I forget the stats, but this loses a huge percentage of the time. Whereas just buying the stock and selling covered calls against it, while a profit limited strategy, is much more likely to succeed in providing income. Of course, if you can aford to buy OTM stuff “on the off chance”, then go for it, I’m just saying that if you do a lot of it, you’re more likely to lose than not, at least according to people way smarter than I.

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justirregular
April 29, 2014 11:22 am

Margaret, Thanks you so much for this thread! I am still learning and I will be doing a mock run of a couple options. I do not feel comfortable yet but I am still learning.
Thanks Frank and Blind eye!

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arch1
April 30, 2014 4:39 am
Reply to  justirregular

Justirr; That is very good idea, if you get feel of how things work & develop your own strategies that you understand you do not need to understand all the confusing language advisers use. My best advice is do not take advice,,,,,follow your own thinking.

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 29, 2014 10:53 pm

Margaret, I am quite interested in your ARNA play (#40 and others). Not so much for your straddles, as I rarely have made money with those (and in fact you have to be a really great stock picker and market timer to do so consistently, so my congratulations for making it work), but your riding it up and riding it back down play. I have run that one before on various things (especially AAPL, which I’m not trading currently, although I will post-split), but I have not had much time for very short term trading lately, so haven’t recently been in the riding game.

However, you have inspired me to consider that again. I had looked at ARNA last year during some of the newsletter hype for it, but it was one of those that I decided “nothing” was the best action on. I think I will look at it again, given your method, and perhaps have some fun with it.

You said “I sensed that you experience pleasure in the process of analyzing a stock” (#43). Actually, not so much. It is a tedius necessity when my mind is screaming “trade now, trade now!”. But it is a necessity, of course, and what I really take pleasure in, is when my review of price action and such leads me to conclude that my initial idea has some validity.
But yes, I do like the “game” type aspect. It’s why I gravitate in the direction of day and swing trading, although lately I’ve only had time to do multi week plays.

I appreciate your style of leading this thread, and trying to keep it educational. I will write something up on moving averages and the other things you mentioned, if someone doesn’t beat me to it.

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 12:57 am

Oh, and I see that Hi Pockets did beat me to it, in #22. Those articles are a comprehensive explanation of moving averages. Most brokers will provide moving average info for you (mine does so in standard detailed stock quotes), and of course every charting package can do them. They are not the only thing to base a trade on, but I find that usually, unless some big news is happening, if the shorter moving averages say “no”, so should I.

Hi Pockets, you said “It appears to me that moving averages work best for mid- and long-term investors, and that they are not useful for low-priced speculative stocks.” (#22). That has not been my experience, but as you said earlier in that post, it may be the kind of stocks you follow. It also may depend on the MAs you’re using (three day, ten day, 20 or 21 day, 50 day, etc.), and how you’re using them. Those articles you posted explain crosses and such, which can be helpful, but YMMV. I don’t really trade penny stocks (I may buy and hold things like CIM, TWO, CYS, and others, but I don’t tend to trade in and out of them rapidly, or use options on them, other than selling puts as synthetic limit orders), and so I don’t tend to analyse them in the same way.

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hipockets
April 30, 2014 1:24 am

The Blind DayTrader — POST 49

I chart 20, 50, and 200 day MAs. I have never seen a rationale for what time frames are best. The thought has occurred to me that 19, 49, and 199 might be advantageous because the lines should cross (if they cross) a day sooner which would put you a tad ahead of the 20, 50, and 200 day crowd. I never got around to trying it. Did I mention that I procrastinate, which is the best way of standing there and doing nothing? :>)

I have seen 10 days used, but it never occurred to me to look at 3 days. I will add that to my charts. Thanks!

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 1:57 am
Reply to  hipockets

Hi Pockets, I’ve seen the 10-3 cross used alot among system trader guys. Not sure how often it’s used in the wild, but short term computational traders have talked about it often. I have never tried it myself, although have used the 10-day off and on in the past on the SPY (but not recently).

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 2:05 am
Reply to  hipockets

Hi Pockets, I’m not sure if they would cross a day sooner, at least not if it was a current moving average. If you’re talking about a historical MA (I.E. one which has an end date before the last trading period), then maybe so. On a current one, the missing day would be at the tail of the MA, and therefore you would just be decreasing your sample size. I believe they would still cross at exactly the same place.
Unless I misunderstood you.

hipockets
April 30, 2014 2:24 am

The Blind DayTrader –
You understood my thinking, and you are 100 % right – they would cross on the same day. I must have been having a senior moment when the idea occurred. :>)

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James
Guest
May 17, 2014 10:36 am
Reply to  hipockets

From Samir Elias book “Generate Thousands” he uses 10, 20 and 30 avgs. His rationale is too complicated to explain but that book is THE resource on selling puts and calls.

The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 2:00 am

Margaret, this is a straddle. I believe you were the one who described doing that, although you didn’t call it that.

biotechlong (btl)
April 30, 2014 2:51 am

Check out this FDA Calendar, Margaret: http://www.biopharmcatalyst.com/fda-calendar/

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Alan Harris
Guest
Alan Harris
April 30, 2014 5:02 am

Not sure where now (others may know) but we have a calendar for this. I get notification on my phone calendar automatically each time an event is due. For instance: NVO Q1 report 1 may 2014.

arch1
April 30, 2014 12:27 am

Margaret: Earlier you said you were waiting for an entry point in ARNA & then closing out near $7.50. When do you buy Puts? at same time you close calls or wait for clear signal Arna is on down leg?

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 1:53 am

Meg/Margaret (which is best?), would you be willing to post a few of your entry/exit dates and prices from ARNA trades you have been successful on, using this pattern that you have identified? I’d like to go back and look at price action, and maybe run some of my own functions on it.

ScorpioRising
ScorpioRising
April 30, 2014 1:12 am

Interesting thread – a long term investor that doesn’t know squat about options. Commenting to receive followups.

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ScorpioRising
ScorpioRising
April 30, 2014 3:07 am

Thanks Margaret (or perhaps our ‘M’, as in Bond’s M). I believe I have the ability to buy and sell options – I have 3 Etrade accounts (rollover IRA, Roth IRA, and a regular non-IRA securities). I’ll have to check my rollover IRA account, as that is where I would like to play. As others have said, I do my own taxes and don’t really want the added hassle of reporting options gains/losses. Actually, that’s why I’m more of a long term investor – preferring long term capital gains and sheer laziness for prepping taxes. Plus, it’s really hard to find the time for day-to-day investing.

I’m a techy guy (28+ years SW Engineer), so I mostly concentrate on what I know. I don’t know biotech, though trying to learn through Dr. KSS’s threads. I can tell you a small tech sector that has been trending down after a long period of trending up – 3D printing, especially 3D systems (DDD).

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The Blind DayTrader
The Blind DayTrader
April 30, 2014 4:07 am

This is a bit OT, but since you mentioned just making sure you have $25 for fees: that seems like a lot to me. I’m with OptionsHouse, which is $8.50 plus $0.15 per contract. So, if I wanted to trade ten contracts, to control 1000 shares, the cost would be $10.
If you always trade five contracts or less, they have a selection to charge only $5.
I’m not here to promote them–they have their issues just like any broker does–but if you check them out, I do have an affiliate link for them since I’m a client. (Hopefully it’s okay to post that; I looked and couldn’t find any forum rules in the FAQ or anywhere else) You can open an unfunded account, to examine their platform.
Okay, end of advertisement. I just didn’t like seeing you spend $25 for something that could be cheaper.:) I think IB is cheaper as well, but I hear bad things about their customer support.

arch1
April 30, 2014 4:27 am

FWIW I also use Options House for reasons you cite.

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James
Guest
May 17, 2014 10:38 am

IB is very cheap, about $1 per trade. But yes their customer service is very suspect and takes a long time. They are usually pretty nice once you get them. Chat works better than phone imo.

Alan Harris
Guest
Alan Harris
April 30, 2014 7:03 am

Regrets re P but I do not have an options account, do not have access to info, nor do I understand the process well enough.

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jer_vic
jer_vic
April 30, 2014 11:30 am

Margaret. I don’t believe CTIX has had an ADCOMM meeting yet. What “positive FDA advisory vote on 4/1” are you referring to? The only thing I can find is an article about them commenting on the positive ADCOMM vote for DRTX and CBST.

I bought 4 calls on DRTX last week, strike price of $12.50, expires June, 2014. 2 @ $2.10 and 2 @ $2.05.
My first options trade.

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JDC
Member
JDC
April 30, 2014 6:43 am

follow

lskulow
lskulow
April 30, 2014 10:37 am

Margaret and anyone interested,
I am testing out a paper trade on GILD:
In the money call option expires May 23rd
Strike Price 75 .00
Premium 3.19
Break Even Price 78.19
Break Even Price inc fee 78.27
(I hope I make an “A”) 🙂

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kenclifton
kenclifton
April 30, 2014 1:27 pm

Another candidate for option testing expecting it to go down would be KO Coka Cola that is trading in a range and is now back at the top of it’s range trading at $40.82 within a slightly downward trend over a two year period. I would look at Selling a BEAR CALL SPREAD, Sell June $41 Strike and Buy June $43 Strike (subject to suitable volume and volitality). When selling options my understanding is that the ideal period to sell is 56 days so that the Premium received has a good amount of Time Premium in it, yet as the time goes down the Loss in the Time Aspect becomes greater and greater. My maximum Risk would be $2 per share if Price goes above $43, which would be a price increase of 5.34% over current price, but I would look to manage that risk if it happens by Rolling the Option over to July for additional Premium.
The June 20 $41 strike Call I could sell now for 60 cents and Buy the June 20 $43 strike Call for 10 cents, a Net Cash Premium receive of 50 cents and a maximum risk of $2 – if doing the trade I would try for a premium of 52 cents being the mid points between the current spread
Whoops – I would not go ahead with that KO plan as checking on the next Dividend period the Entitlement date is June 16 so there may be a further run up in price towards that 3% dividend date. Further I would want to Sell the Option when Implied Volitility is high but right now it is 12.335% compared to Historical Implied Volitility of 14.766% – anyway I decided to post the suggestion as to my thought process and will monitor the result based on the above prices just to do my bit.

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kenclifton
kenclifton
April 30, 2014 1:36 pm

Correction to KO Option risk it is $1.50 not $2 as I had not deducted the premium received.

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dereker1
dereker1
April 30, 2014 4:06 pm

Ken: Where do you get you IV figures from? I am trying to gather as much info as possible about selling options but I am not sure where you find things like IV.

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kenclifton
kenclifton
April 30, 2014 4:40 pm

I got it from my Interactive Broker TWS software. They now have a new system that I have not had time to look at, it also gives Delta, which is the percentage chance that price will be above $43 by June 20 expiration. If you looked at the YouTube on the Million Dollar Option Trader, she would only sell the $43 strike if the Delta was more than 85%.
If you are in USA then you should open a free demo account with Sink or Swim as it has the very best option software, but their brokerage is higher then IB.

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