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written by reader Storage of Electricity – #Batteries & BIG image

By SoGiAm, July 29, 2016

This discussion provides the current and future of of Li, G, NAM; H2O and more…
After Fukushima REBECCA JOHNSON 24 March 2011 https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rebecca-johnson/after-fukushima

LONG TSX-V: GGG $0.25 OTCQB: $GPHBF $0.19, July 28, 2016 Graphene 3D Lab Introduces New Type of Single Layer Graphene Material:
http://www.graphene3dlab.com/s/news.asp?ReportID=757543&_Type=News&_Title=Graphene-3D-Lab-Introduces-New-Type-of-Single-Layer-Graphene-Material

$GLFN – http://galenfeha.com/ and #Gummune

Author: arch1 Comment: http://www.stockgumshoe.com/2016/03/microblog-club-house-for-the-discussion-of-religion-politics-and-other-unmentionables-volume-5/comment-page-17/#comment-4886050 New development for battery research to make electric vehicles practical and cost competitive…
Best2You ~ Benjamin @H0U3

This is a discussion topic or guest posting submitted by a Stock Gumshoe reader. The content has not been edited or reviewed by Stock Gumshoe, and any opinions expressed are those of the author alone.

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Ashton
Member
Ashton
February 2, 2018 10:18 am

Very interesting article: The Breakneck Rise of China’s Colossus of Electric-Car Batteries

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-01/the-breakneck-rise-of-china-s-colossus-of-electric-car-batteries

Note the planned IPO.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 3, 2018 4:17 am
Reply to  Ashton

Look at what the gas car did for the US in the 20th century.
The Chinese may do the same for China in the 21st with EVs.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 3, 2018 4:16 am

#no ticker China, Energy, Transport, and Electrification

The Chinese economic strategy is quite brilliant in the energy and transport sector and has a lot of ramifications for investors. I do not claim to understand all of the implications but the outline of what is happening is pretty clear.

1. Take all the bogus USD they have been getting and buy real hard assets with them before everyone realizes that the Emperor Has No Clothes. Buy foreign businesses like entertainment, news, real estate, mines, food production. Buy gold. Anything that is a tangible asset or that makes a profit.

2. Reduce dependence on foreign oil, which is a massive drain and supports politically non-aligned or even hostile governments (Saudis, USA)

3. Create a powerhouse alternate energy system with anything but oil:
solar, nuclear, hydro. Go electric and upgrade grid, decentralize with solar

4. Clean up pollution which is creating domstic dissatisfaction. When the EV thing is ready to go, then turn open the spigot on car and truck consumption with the domestic population; but not before, because the money goes to foreign companies and imported oil and creates pollution. Kick out Uber, make things tough for Amazon and Apple and start your own e-platform powerhouses. Get the money flowing in, not flowing out.

4. Secure the raw materials needed for electification, especially battery materials. Buy cheap assets in Africa, Canada, Australia, South America. See #1, 2, 3, 4 above.

5. When the vehicle thing is going, then go after aviation.

Note that all the components needed, especially strategic metals, are either domestically available or locked up in neutral or stable jurisdictions.

It is a strategy that is completely understandable from the point of view of Chinese interests.
***
A very simple principle comes to mind:

What the Chinese want to buy, I want to own it, or be long in it.

What the Chinese want to sell, I want to be out of it, or short.
***
Speaking simply and practically, as an investor, the Chinese need raw materials
and food.

On the other hand, the output of their factories is not something I would be excited about competing against, for example in cars and trucks, TVs, iron rebar, or anything you can find at Walmart or Home Depot, food and lumber excepted.

The picture is a little unclear in batteries. . The Chinese want to buy batteries from domestic makers, but they also want to sell them. Like many people I have some reservations about Chinese securities, and moreover I am not excited by big caps; although one of the articles posted said Warren Buffett in into BYD.
**
There is a similar alignment of interests between the European industrialist and the Chinese establishment, insofar as both need energy that is not dependent on oil, and both depend on the export of manufactured goods. I think mainly of Germany here, which has one of the largest export businesses in the world, based mostly in high tech and high value added items.

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edski
Irregular
February 3, 2018 9:43 am
Reply to  SoGiAm

Maybe because Americans forgot how to talk to each other!

We have created such competition for the newest/coolest thing that there is no room to plan for something as large as a cultural necessity. God forbid we try and understand our fractured and broken political system.

On another note, the other thing that keeps pecking at me is I am very afraid that only one or two systems will become the only method chosen for batteries…like that bitter war deciding that VCR’s needed to be VHS and not Beta. I see many more varieties needed, but you never know.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 4, 2018 6:27 am
Reply to  edski

edski…I was in the electronics business during the VHS wars and saw how timing, price, market share and marketing can lead to an inferior technology winning dominance.

Technology quickly overtook video tape and both
formats are now vintage junk at the flea markets, along with 45s, reel-to-reel, long playing vinyl records, 8 tracks, audio cassettes,
camcorders, transistor radios.

Why I am cautious in tech manufacturing. Remember Zenith and Magnavox ? How about Kodak ?

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edski
Irregular
February 4, 2018 1:33 pm
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

Yes I do! Funny, but they are popular now! Oh Irony.
Zenth, Magnavox, Kodak….all eventually out done by foreign imports.

Technology keeps the economic wheels greased, whether by design or necessity.
Young-un’s don’t believe me when I show them a 2 inch video tape head, and tell them to compare it to their iphone.

I’m going to go listen to my 8 track now………

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hendrixnuzzles
February 9, 2018 8:44 am
Reply to  edski

When I began in retailing there were no CALCULATORS.

You had to figure out everything in your head.
I worked for a 16 store chain, the buyer would come in and say something like: “OK I got a deal $ 56.70 a dozen for the large and $ 49.20 a dozen for the medium and 32.20 for the small. Pack is 12 on the large 18 medium ,and 24 each on the small.

Write me a $75,000 order and fix the retail prices so that we get 48.0% including the freight. Need it by lunch with the store distributions. And where are those orders I gave you yesterday ?”

Even in accounting and payables there were no electronics. Armies of people with manual adding machines. called “comptometers” and stacks of paper. This was in the second half of the 20th century, in 1970’s.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 9, 2018 8:55 am
Reply to  edski

No reel-to-reel ? I had a Sony.

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edski
Irregular
February 9, 2018 9:10 am
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

Heh heh….reel to reel?????I’d never invest my money into one of those……I wanted the newest thing that there would ever be….8 track tape with the obligatory Trini Lopez, Mantovani, and Dave Brubeck tapes.

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sunriverjoe
sunriverjoe
February 3, 2018 9:57 am

#Vanadium
I’ve been away for a few days so this may have been posted. If it’s as good as they make it sound, it could have serious implications for VRB’s.
https://www.natureindex.com/article/10.1002/anie.201703399

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hendrixnuzzles
February 4, 2018 6:49 am
Reply to  sunriverjoe

thanks sunriverjoe. Looks like something to keep aware of.
Lab status in China and the U.S.

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dougj34
dougj34
February 3, 2018 10:37 am

I looked at Medallion Resources TSX.V:MDL OTC:MLLOF, no position, 4-5 years ago and thought I would see if they were still around in five years I would give them another look. Lo and behold I received an e-mail msg this morning from Medallion. This is an enterprise going after low production cost REE. With all that is happening in the EV and battery markets Medallion could have a place in the current demand for Rare Earth Elements. I was initially skeptical re the radioactive properties of Monazite (contains Thorium and trace Uranium), that was before I was aware of Thorium’s value which is gaining momentum also (e.g. Lightbridge, NASDAQ: LTBR, NP). MLLOF trades thinly and has been quietly progressing over the years, it may be worth a look. There is no mine to build, only a processing facility and bulk transport. We know REE’s are in demand and common, just not economically feasible to produce based on REE volume in most cases.

Medallion is focusing on NdPr: Neodymium and Praseodymium, collectively known as NdPr, are metallic elements that belong to the lanthanide group of the periodic table.

Long-term success for NdPr is linked to the heavyweight automotive and industrial power industries. NdPr has the potential to follow in the footsteps of Lithium in experiencing a long-term increase in demand alongside advancing energy technologies. While Lithium is used for energy storage, NdPr is used in both the generation of electricity and its subsequent conversion to mechanical energy for vehicle propulsion (RFC Ambrian, 2018).

Medallion has been at it for a while and is focused on low cost production of a proven resource available from cast-aways of current mining operations and found abundantly in beach sands. If a global cooling trend is actually underway (no, I am not going into a survival mode here), beaches will expand significantly during the coming years. Medallion’s team appears to meet investor experience and competency requirements, it is a well rounded group IMO. And it is dirt cheap. Best.

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Griffin
Griffin
February 3, 2018 4:23 pm

$FYI – A new type of solar cell is coming to market

https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21736122-perovskites-have-potential-outshine-silicon-solar-panels-new-type?fsrc=rss

note: the new solar cells are more efficient in a different wave length than silicon solar cells when combine their efficiency is better the stand alone cells.

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 3, 2018 5:14 pm
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Griffin
Griffin
February 3, 2018 5:53 pm
Reply to  Cowboy

Excellent post Cowboy Thanks for all you do great stuff.

$MGXMF long

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hendrixnuzzles
February 5, 2018 7:46 am
Reply to  Cowboy

Cowboy, off-topic but I am worried about the situation in Heart of Darkness and you said you have a big position. Check out news releases in last two months.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 4, 2018 2:17 pm
Reply to  SoGiAm

Sorry I am not on twitter of facebook. There used to be a lot of mining in NC.
Gold, even. Reed’s Jewelers was founded by a guy who found a 35 pound gold nugget near Charlotte.

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 3, 2018 11:17 pm

Rongke Power….Private, in China. ( as far as I can tell )….I had saved this article on my computer screen and forgot to post it some time ago when we were discussing the batteries that I prefer because they don’t burn. Another battery manufacturing company in China. Don’t seem to be in the hairball in China, but is another name to remember… https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/fuel-cells/its-big-and-longlived-and-it-wont-catch-fire-the-vanadium-redoxflow-battery Please excuse if posted previously…Cowboy

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hendrixnuzzles
February 4, 2018 2:06 pm
Reply to  Cowboy

Rongke is just in a different hairball. There’s a different hairballs in China.
We just stumbled into one.

The one we found has an axis between central China and Shanghai, Pretty much along the Yang-tse River. But there’s others. We hope our hairball expands, and gets really big and successful.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 4, 2018 2:15 pm
Reply to  Cowboy

Rongke is in a pretty important hairball. The got the contract for the world’s largest solar install in North China.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 4, 2018 3:02 pm
Reply to  Cowboy

My response on Ron Kay went into mod-a-ray-shun. Don’t know why. It’s been an hour.

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Lulu
February 5, 2018 1:55 pm
Reply to  SoGiAm

$SRI- spearmint – Ben are you still long and happy?

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Lulu
February 5, 2018 2:29 pm

BloomBox – 2010 CBS 60 minutes video led me to it’s list of announcements. Google it and it pops up instantly but here is a link to recent announcement on the Bloom-Box in Korea.
http://www.bloomenergy.com/newsroom/press-releases/

Interesting to note they continue to use government incentives rather than going public…..milk the system.

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edski
Irregular
February 6, 2018 9:18 pm
Reply to  Lulu

Mmmmmmm….milk………
That’s the way it’s done these days Lulu. There is hardly anyone that doesn’t grab the “free” money when made available. I would guess that at least after completion, the power system becomes more believable because it has been working, unless, of course…….it doesn’t.
After following up on Bloom, I would start slowly accumulating after an IPO as things stand now.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 9, 2018 8:56 am
Reply to  Lulu

Bloom is interesting but it is private.

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Lulu
February 9, 2018 2:43 pm
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

For sure until the government subsidies run dry……or word they are drying up sets in.

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 5, 2018 5:16 pm

CTEQF, SPNRF–Long…Podcast from John Kasier…Congo taxes discussed pertaining to copper, Lithium, Scanidum and Battery content in the future… https://www.howestreet.com/2018/02/02/congo-launches-cobalt-tax-grab/ …Cowboy

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d.mounts
d.mounts
February 6, 2018 11:50 am

$NT While this may have been posted on the first ‘Scandium’ thread, the article is a reminder that large scale clean energy storage (Lithium-Ion) is in use, now, in Australia. The comments below the article are also interesting.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/1/16723186/elon-musk-battery-launched-south-australia

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secretsquirrel
secretsquirrel
February 6, 2018 5:13 pm

Here’s how Mercedes will make you forget all about Tesla

Phillip Tracy— Jan 31 at 17:43:38

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/mercedes-electric-cars/

“As batteries are the heart of our electric vehicles we put a great emphasis on building them in our own factories,” Daimler wrote on its website. “With our global battery network we are in an excellent position: As we are close to our vehicle plants we can ensure the optimal supply of production. In case of a short-term high demand in another part of the world our battery factories are also well prepared for export.”

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hendrixnuzzles
February 7, 2018 9:11 am
Reply to  secretsquirrel

Tag line in upper right says every MBZ model will have an electric option by 2022.
Four years from now

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secretsquirrel
secretsquirrel
February 6, 2018 5:26 pm

If previously posted, apologies.

Congo seeks more cobalt market control as batteries drive boom

Bloomberg News | a day ago |

Congo accounts for about two-thirds of global cobalt supply. Photo shows Mount Mongengenge, near Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo.

(Bloomberg) — The Democratic Republic of Congo will seek greater control of the global cobalt market by engaging directly with car and battery manufacturers, according to its largest state-owned mining company.

“I find it scandalous that when cobalt is discussed, and the explosion of electric vehicles, only the traders and consumers are referenced and Congo and Gecamines are not cited,” Gecamines Chairman Albert Yuma said in an interview in Cape Town.

The market seems to think that “the future of cobalt is in the hands of Glencore, Trafigura and CMOC but not the Congo or Gecamines,” Yuma said. “We legitimately want to control the cobalt market because it is ours.”

Congo accounts for about two-thirds of global cobalt supply. The country isn’t benefiting from rallying copper and cobalt prices and plans to renegotiate partnerships with international mining companies, Yuma said earlier Monday.

Gecamines has already held discussion with one large Chinese battery producer about establishing a joint venture to develop the state-owned miner’s cobalt concessions, Yuma said. It is also planning discussions with a Chinese car manufacturer, he added, declining to identify either company.

Consumers want to secure, stable, long-term supply and, unlike traders, don’t speculate on price, he said.

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