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written by reader Storage of Electricity – #Batteries & BIG image

By SoGiAm, July 29, 2016

This discussion provides the current and future of of Li, G, NAM; H2O and more…
After Fukushima REBECCA JOHNSON 24 March 2011 https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rebecca-johnson/after-fukushima

LONG TSX-V: GGG $0.25 OTCQB: $GPHBF $0.19, July 28, 2016 Graphene 3D Lab Introduces New Type of Single Layer Graphene Material:
http://www.graphene3dlab.com/s/news.asp?ReportID=757543&_Type=News&_Title=Graphene-3D-Lab-Introduces-New-Type-of-Single-Layer-Graphene-Material

$GLFN – http://galenfeha.com/ and #Gummune

Author: arch1 Comment: http://www.stockgumshoe.com/2016/03/microblog-club-house-for-the-discussion-of-religion-politics-and-other-unmentionables-volume-5/comment-page-17/#comment-4886050 New development for battery research to make electric vehicles practical and cost competitive…
Best2You ~ Benjamin @H0U3

This is a discussion topic or guest posting submitted by a Stock Gumshoe reader. The content has not been edited or reviewed by Stock Gumshoe, and any opinions expressed are those of the author alone.

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👍 11604
hendrixnuzzles
February 7, 2018 11:48 am

Robert Friedland talking about hydrogen fuel cells

http://www.miningweekly.com/article/new-dawn-for-platinum-mining-robert-friedland-2018-02-07

Tehnology moving fast. Maybe hydrogen fuel cells are coming faster in the next wave after Li-NCM-zinc. The speech was in South Africa, home field of Platreefs;
and Honda, a Japanese company, was referenced.

Bullish for platinum.

One thinks of the 10% stake in Platreefs owned by a Japanese comglomerate.

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arch1
February 7, 2018 1:40 pm
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

Fuel cells could be a stiff competitor with batteries. Even more in generation stations than vehicles. The high pressure tank needed in vehicles is a drawback and unneeded in stationary large facilities.

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 7, 2018 12:58 pm

MGXMF–Long….Critical Investor Q & A with MGX Minerals CEO Jared Lazerson… http://www.theenergyreport.com/article/2018/02/06/the-critical-investor-q-a-with-mgx-minerals-ceo-jared-lazerson.html ….Cowboy

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Griffin
Griffin
February 7, 2018 3:08 pm
Reply to  Cowboy

Keep’em coming, another great write on MGX. MGX has enough ‘Irons in the fire’ for a catalyst every month per the CEO. Sprott has bought in for $2.5m. I need more profit to liquidate to buy more $MGXMF.

MGXMF long

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CryptoInvestor
CryptoInvestor
February 8, 2018 2:13 am
Reply to  Griffin

Huge fan of MGX and a shareholder. It’s a spec stock and will require patience, but this has 10-bagger written all over it. If not 20-bagger. I bought a full position in the $0.70’s but think it’s still a strong buy. Will increase position as I take profits elsewhere.

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hendrixnuzzles
February 9, 2018 8:53 am
Reply to  CryptoInvestor

Oooh Crypto.

Where “elsewhere” will you take profits ?

Right now my only “elsewhere with profits” are companies I don’t want to sell…in resources, anyway.

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Lulu
February 7, 2018 2:03 pm

From GreenTeck media:

TOP ENERGY STORAGE NEWS FROM GTM: Summary of articles:
(I wasn’t able to add them as links,sorry….and….if this is not of use to anyone, pls say so; I will not continue to post. Thanks

02.06.18 | Katie Fehrenbacher
Tesla’s Latest South Australia Battery Project to Rival the Capacity of a Coal Plant →
The project is being hailed as “the world’s largest virtual power plant.” But what exactly does that mean?

02.02.18 | Julian Spector
Arizona Just Raised the Bar for Innovative Clean Grid Policy →
The proposed blending of renewables targets with peak storage delivery should give other states something to think about.

02.05.18 | Julian Spector
AES Corporation Reshuffles to Cut Costs and Carbon Emissions →
The energy transition hits home at another multinational power provider.

02.05.18 | Jason Deign
Alevo Administrators to Wrap Up Sale of Grid-Storage Assets in a ‘Couple of Weeks’ →
The bidding process is still ongoing.

02.02.18 | Julia Pyper
Utility Ratemaking Trends to Watch For in 2018 →
Fixed fee hikes, mandatory demand charges and new dockets to support EV charging infrastructure.

01.31.18 | Julian Spector
The Controversy Surrounding Massachusetts’ $1.6B Hydropower Transmission Line →
If Massachusetts can’t agree on its clean energy strategy, who can?

01.31.18 | Mike Munsell
10 Trends That Will Shape the Global Solar Market in 2018 →
GTM Research’s team of solar analysts put some numbers behind their 2018 predictions.

02.02.18 | Stephen Lacey
Here’s a Forecast for Every Major Distributed Energy Technology →
What do the numbers tell us will happen in solar, wind, storage, smart meters, CHP and microgrids?

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arch1
February 7, 2018 2:48 pm
Reply to  Lulu

Lulu thank you for post and asking about virtual power plant. That has not really been discussed here and I meant make note of possibilities.

Most power plants are not built near major cities in the west. BPA on Columbia river for example That supplies OR WA and into the California grid.
The best place to build solar is in desert SW AZ Nevada s. CA etc.. There must be long range transmission at very high voltages in a grid to make that work.
A virtual power plant is a storage facility which may be placed anywhere, ideally where heaviest power use is located. Those can be charged when there is a huge surplus of power ie between 10:am to4;pm for solar and at night elsewhere.

There must be enough generation capacity to supply the grid at all times,
darkness for solar, no wind for wind, low water reservoir reserve for hydro so Fossil fuel,,,now mostly NGas, generally is used for the reserve so the plants must be kept hot and running in case of sudden need.

That is expensive so storage becomes attractive and even more so if it does not have to go over the grid before use as in placement in or near major cities.

So those virtual plants or storage charge up during surplus at lower rates and sell back during high demand at high rates. Further they do not have the power loss inherent in the grid. They could be privately owned or publicly and if private be a good investment.

Hope that helps all.

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Dennis
Dennis
February 7, 2018 2:45 pm

Here in Vancouver BC we were early into the fuel cell market through a company called “Ballard”. Imagine all these vehicles emitting water vapor at below freezing temperatures. Talk about icy roads! Also, perhaps newer versions of fuel cells are quieter than the old ones but the Ballard cells made quite a substantial roaring noise. Love to hear about newer cells from people who are working with them now.

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edski
Irregular
February 8, 2018 4:53 pm
Reply to  Dennis

….That never entered my mind about spot puddling in traffic jams. This is another example of how simply discussing ideas brings up interesting situations.

And the noise levels…..I never knew how they rated. Funny, at one time GM said they needed to have an engine like noise inside their electric cars, so people would know they were in “running” mode.

Thanks Dennis!

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hendrixnuzzles
February 9, 2018 8:15 am
Reply to  edski

I have a Toyota Prius and the lack of noise is a sometimes a problem. Pedestrians don’t hear it, and sometimes you leave the car without turning it off when it is running.

Easy to fix. Instead of a phony engine sound or an irritating seat-belt buzzer, they could have a sexy voice saying

“Hey, Handsome. You’ve turned me on, I’m all hot and revved up, but if you are not going to drive me now, let’s save my energy for the next time. OK, sugar ?”

One of the potentials of advantages of low-cost voice technology.

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Lulu
February 9, 2018 2:41 pm
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

with the capability of changing the options such as one is able to do on ‘siri’…hey gorgeous!!
Thanks for the smiles.

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Lulu
February 7, 2018 3:18 pm

I posted a few weeks ago about the World Outlook Financial Conference which was held Feb 2/3 in Vancouver.
Here is a link to Michael campbell introduction comments.

http://moneytalks.net/moneytalks-store.html#video

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Griffin
Griffin
February 7, 2018 3:39 pm

$FYI – I received this mo9nths ‘AltEnergyMag Newsletter – Feb 7/18’ this is a list of articles in it, too many to post, an a link follows to a page with links to each.

What are Hot Solar Cells?

Corporations Purchased Record Amounts of Clean Power in 2017

What is Smart Off-Grid?

How Solar Powered Trash Cans Might Mean Major Savings for Cities

Why and When Does a Solar Panel Brand Matter or Not?

Karl Klontz Battery Conversion

https://www.altenergymag.com/streaming.php?type=a

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edski
Irregular
February 8, 2018 9:54 am

I LIED!

I was so excited mentioning FLUENCE, a company spun off from AES and Siemens, that I ASSumed that the Fluence I came across right away was FLC:AX. Wrong!

AES and Siemens DID spin off a new company called Fluence, but so far it remains more or less a division of both of the companies, so no listing for it.
I have included new links to a couple of stories from those Motley characters and AES that help explain their story. It is definitely worth watching to see if it becomes an IPO or Spun off from both companies.

Personally, I think that I may start investing a little at a time, (if I can find some ca$h!!!) in AES. At least there is a dividend paid 4.68% until I see where and which way I want to go.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/01/18/why-aes-corps-shares-popped-12-today.aspx

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/04/25/can-aes-succeed-where-nrg-energy-failed.aspx

http://blog.fluenceenergy.com/siemens-financial-services-and-fluence-announce-comprehensive-financing-program-for-energy-storage-customers-worldwide

Best of luck to all, sorry for my inattention earlier.

Ed

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hendrixnuzzles
February 8, 2018 9:17 pm
Reply to  edski

edski…”lie” connotes intent. You just “erred”.

I saw somewhere that it’s entirely human to do so.

It’s pretty relling that a lot of the best opportunities in storage are being held closely by the big guys. To get a piece of Fluence we have to buy Siemens or AES or participate in the IPO.

They are using Li-NCM.

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edski
Irregular
February 9, 2018 9:24 am
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

I figured that yesterday was a good day to start buying a little AES. I bet on it going to 10.10, and it beat my expectations! IN reverse of course. But a paltry entry into it will keep me going.

I figure that a position in it could possibly offer me a chance to get some “new and improved Fleunce” when they, IF THEY decide to spin it from the major companies. Plus, AES is working overtime building systems all over the globe in sustainable projects, and working with new ideas. Siemens is also offering the financing for the projects, which was a tough gig for those that couldn’t find financing available.

They also pay a dividend, and after this drop, or even lower, I think the timing is right to start accumulation. I sold half of my Goldcorp to get some $ available while we watch what happens in the markets.
Goldcorp has been on a funky ride down……..

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hendrixnuzzles
February 9, 2018 9:28 am

Time frames and technology…with technology advancing so rapidly we will be continually presented with challenges of evaluating developments and their potential impact on investment choices.

There is something of a paradox because with very advanced tech and large markets, the lead times are long. However, uptake and adoption can occur rapidly once the innovation is proven and it is backed by big interests.
**

As a practical matter, my intention as a retail investor is to consider the following:

1. If the innovation is in the market and can affect the business right now, or within two or three, I will consider it.

2. If the innovation seems potentially important but cannot be brought to market and have an impact on current manufacturing and consumer choices within 4 years, it is not a viable investment consideration for me right now.

3. If the innovation looks really good but will take longer than 4 years, but less than 10 years before it might have a market impact, the technology is worth keeping tabs on, but individual investment choices are premature.

4. If the innovation, in my opinion, is more than ten years away from having an impact, it may be interesting idea but not for my investment purposes.
**
These are just my personal views. It is important to keep an eye out about what is going on, and if one guesses correctly there is a huge upside.

Things change. Developments in hydrogen cells have just “moved up” in terms of potential time frame. I thought it was more than 10 years out; but then I see a picture of a Honda that uses hydrogen fuel cells, and think that maybe it is 5-10 years away.

The vagaries of technology are difficult to predict, and speaking practically to make a really big score you still need to be able to put a large amount of capital into a development longshot, and wait several years for the results. At present, I do not feel I would be able to take this approach with an amount of money that would really make a difference. Someone else may feel differently or have a different assessment than I do of the technology or the time frame, or be willing to take a long shot that I am not comfortable with.

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 9, 2018 6:05 pm

MGXMF–Long…..HN just seeing if this was going to be another hairball, cause evidently China is involved here too some kind of way with MGXMF. I was here.. https://ceo.ca/xmg and ran across this.. http://www.intecqlimited.com/6319/nanoflotation-david-bromley-engineering-ltd.html#nogo which had links that said MGXMF was partners in some areas as you can see in the link. Which led me here… http://www.dbe2000.com/nanoflotation-low-energy-low-cost-water-treatment/ … Got too many windows open on this computer again, so I wanted to do some linkin before it locks up again and I lose something. I haven’t seen anything on these two companies websites that leads me to believe that they are public, but it appears that MGXMF has some type of business dealings with them. I’m bored again. sorry…Cowboy

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 9, 2018 9:26 pm

MGXMF–Long….. ( I am redoing this post because it has been in moderation for several hours..too many links I reckon ) HN just seeing if this was going to be another hairball, cause evidently China is involved here too, some kind of way with MGXMF. I was on ceo.ca and ran across this.. http://www.intecqlimited.com/6319/nanoflotation-david-bromley-engineering-ltd.html#nogo …which had links that said MGXMF was partners in some areas as you can see in the link. Which led me here… http://www.dbe2000.com/nanoflotation-low-energy-low-cost-water-treatment/ … Got too many windows open on this computer again, so I wanted to do some linkin before it locks up again and I lose something. I haven’t seen anything on these two companies websites that leads me to believe that they are public, but it appears that MGXMF has some type of business dealings with them. I’m bored again. sorry…Cowboy

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 10, 2018 12:38 pm
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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 10, 2018 1:43 pm

MGXMF–Long…U-Tube interview with Jared Lazerson published 2/8/18…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=y9G9aZP5NgY ….Cowboy

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 13, 2018 10:29 am

SRI/SPNRF–Long…Article on Sparton’s Alan Barker and his pay check… https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-sparton-resources-inc-cve-140916698.html ….Cowboy

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Lulu
February 13, 2018 2:02 pm
Reply to  Cowboy

SimplyWallSt. site is interesting…got lost in it checking out my ‘waiting for picks’. Sign up for 14 days for free. Thanks for posting that can not find the link now so thanks….

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hendrixnuzzles
February 13, 2018 10:44 pm

Zinc battery storage:

http://www.mining-journal.com/base-metals/news/1311257/%E2%80%9Czinc-metal-demand-battery-storage-198mt-metal%E2%80%9D

The writer suggests that zinc-air storage may prove to be a strong format for storage and provide some price support on zinc.

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 13, 2018 11:39 pm

CTEQF,SPNRF,MGXMF—Long. We may be early, but, we are in the right places…. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/50-megawatt-battery-will-give-arizona-peak-power-from-the-sun#gs.k4fnhgU …Cowboy

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hendrixnuzzles
February 14, 2018 1:48 am
Reply to  Cowboy

What type of battery are they going to use in the AZ project ?

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 14, 2018 10:36 am
Reply to  hendrixnuzzles

From everything I have gone through to try and determine that answer HN, it appears that they will be Lithium-ion batteries for both the small and larger batteries. They will be coming from Fluence here… https://www.nasdaq.com/article/aes-corp-siemens-set-to-create-energy-storage-jv-fluence-cm815140 For our info, AES is a publicly traded company… AES ( NYSE ) as is of course Siemens….Cowboy

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edski
Irregular
February 15, 2018 10:02 am
Reply to  Cowboy

Yes indeed. I am following the Fluence “division” of both companies. My thinking is to start a small purchase of AES, (I did) and add slowly t it. It pays 4.68% div. and just maybe, the companies will spin off Fluence as it’s own company.

But! Who knows. Since Siemens is offering the financing for battery projects for Fluence, that may be difficult. Maybe not.
Other companies have failed because of lack of available financing to cover battery storage. Siemens changes that problem.

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edski
Irregular
February 15, 2018 12:34 pm
Reply to  edski

Another good PRIVATE Company to keep an eye on, in case it goes public one day……………
http://www.sionpower.com

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Cowboy
Cowboy
February 13, 2018 11:46 pm

Tesla–np, MGXMF, CTEQF–Long ( Gona need LOTS of battery materials )…. Going big on energy storage… https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/tesla-plans-to-triple-battery-deployments-in-2018#gs.4tl2Lww …Cowboy

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Griffin
Griffin
February 14, 2018 12:36 am
Reply to  Cowboy

I would not invest in Tesla because of storage batteries..l. There are no lithium ion storage batteries that can both charge and discharge at the same time… For a Li-ion battery to both charge and discharge at the same time you have to add additional hardware and the cost goes up. HNs’ Mining Journal article on zinc air is good and it says that zinc air is cheap. Zinc air will charge and discharge at the same time, as will VRB. Between VRB and Zinc-air storage batteries the winner will be in the details. I think because of cost Zinc-air may have an edge.

$MGXMF long

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hendrixnuzzles
February 14, 2018 7:40 am
Reply to  Griffin

Griffin…general agreement, though Tesla is rendered more viable on account of the storage potential. Li-NCM, VRB and zinc are the best targets for the next four years, in my opinion.

Surfing around there are also a lot of lead-acid improvements also in currently available formulations; the weight is substantial so it will likely be relatively unattractive for EVs, and lead is so common as a commodity that I would be a little hesitant unless I saw a very highly leveraged play in it and was persuaded of overall price inflation.

Also, I noted that it is not as easy as you might imagine to determine the battery chemistry on existing products. The manufacturers give a lot of performance specifications, but the composition of the battery is not always divulged.

For the most part I suppose in stuff that is not intended for EVs or grid and micro-grid applications are likely to be lead-acid or Li-NCM.

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