A Microcap Teaser Solution In Advance !!
(Australian stock exchange CLQ, OTC pinks CTEQF).
CleanTeQ is sure to be the answer to future teasers you will be reading about from resource gurus, To save you all the trouble of solving them, I decided to write this article.
My portfolio was grotesquely overweight in gold and silver positions, and in moments of anxiety I thought it would be a good idea to diversify and take a few positions in something other than gold mines, royalty companies, Mongolian exploration companies, and small-cap copper miners with major operations in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Thus I made a small speculation in CleanTeQ, solely on the basis that mining titan Robert Friedland was the Chairman, and CleanTeQ was the only resource company I could find that seemed to be in a position to mine scandium, a very rare metal that sells for a couple of thousand dollars a kilo.
My due diligence was so slight that I was embarrassed to emphasize my position to the readers at Stock Gumshoe. We are supposed to study these things a little more than I did for CleanTeQ. And after entering at 50 cents, the stock promptly dropped to 35 cents or so, making me glad that I did not look foolish by publicizing my position.
As the weeks went by, I started to find more information on the company that I should have found out beforehand. This was partly accidental, partly from other Gumshoe readers, and partly from new announcements and company news that occurred after I took a position. But the findings were all very positive, and because the company is so interesting I thought it warranted its own thread apart from the hard asset thread which I moderate.
I have a full long position and high hopes. And I thank Secretsquirrel, Griffin, Larry McKenna, and several others who helped fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle.
Below are my findings, opinions, and summary on CleanTeQ Holdings:
BUSINESS MODEL CleanTeQ is a hybrid company based with three bases: scandium mining and production, cobalt mining and production, and water purification. This seems like an odd combination, but as you will see, it is not. It is a stroke of genius. And I will explain why we should care about scandium and cobalt.
(1) The company is starting production of the Syerston mine, the world’s only scandium mine;
(2) The company will also produce significant amounts of cobalt as a co-product to the scandium;
(3) The company has a large-scale water purification technology, which will target municipalities,
Industrial operations with waste water problems, and mines, which also have water problems
PROSPECTS FOR THE THREE SEGMENTS
(1) Scandium is a very rare metal that usually occurs in only small amounts that are not economical to mine. It is mostly available as a by-product and the market is opaque, usually between private parties. Scandium has very beneficial applications in aerospace, aviation, and technology, but has not been widely applied because there is not a sufficiently reliable supply of it.
(2) Cobalt is essential in many batteries. Lithium gets all the investment press, but a majority of the battery formulations need cobalt, which is rare compared to lithium. Cobalt has a similar supply situation as scandium, it is mostly a by-product and is not commonly a prime mining target in and of itself. But demand for the electric energy market is growing rapidly and cobalt demand is growing and will continue to grow accordingly. Supply chains on cobalt are iffy.
(3) Water purification is a pressing need throughout the world. Cities with lots of people, industrialized places with lots of factories, or mines with waste water, all have a real and pressing need for large scale water purification. I think most people can accept this premise of widespread demand without a lot of documentation.
HOW DO THESE SEGMENTS RELATE TO EACH OTHER ? I cannot get too technical about the water purification technology, but I will try to explain what I understand, and how it relates to the scandium and cobalt operations. They call it Continuous Flow Ionization. Ionization is not a proprietary technology per se, but CleanTeQ has developed a way to implement ionization in a continuous feed, automated loop that improves volume, improves economics, is reasonably priced for installation, and can be custom-modified to specific waste problems. It can be used in conjunction with other filtration techniques. Further, it can be modified TO EXTRACT CERTAIN SUBSTANCES from the feed waste water. This is done by modifying the resins that are used in the ionization process.
Now it so happens that CleanTeQ has developed resins that can extract scandium and cobalt from waste water. So they potentially will have commercial sources of rare metals from the by-product waste of their water purification process !
HOW CLOSE IS THE WATER THING TO REALLY HAPPENING ? It is happening. CleanTeQ has signed a memorandum of understanding with a major Chinese municipality to implement their technology. There is a joint venture, 55% Chinese/45% CleanTeQ. Once the first one is up and working, China has a mind-boggling potential for water purification. For their teeming urban centers and for their mining and industrial locations, shall we say the potential is very large ?
CleanTeQ has 100% of rest of the world. CleanTeQ is closed-mouthed about other commercial sources, but they let on that they have been in contact with the likes of GE, Dow, and other big hitters. They state a pipeline target of $100 million by 2020; I predict they will do much better.
HOW CLOSE IS THE COBALT THING TO REALLY HAPPENING ? Very close. Battery useage is soaring and is the strategic target of many governments, corporations, and environmental groups. Batteries need cobalt.
HOW CLOSE IS THE SCANDIUM THING FROM HAPPENING ? This will take a while because the applications are high tech, with long lead times, and there is only one scandium mine in the world (CleanTeQ’s newly commissioned Syerston mine). CleanTeQ intends to develop the scandium market by being a reliable source of supply, and by driving the price down.
CleanTeQ will have viable margins with scandium prices up to half of current prices.
To give you an idea, the Russians made a few MIGs with scandium/aluminum alloys. They were faster, lighter, stronger. An addition of 0.5% scandium to aviation aluminum strengthens the frame, removes the need for riveting, reduces weight, and makes repairs easier. . The Russians dropped it because of costs; and Boeing and Airbus will not use it without a reliable source of supply. But there is about to be a reliable source of supply: CleanTeQ.
WHAT ABOUT IP PROTECTION ? I believe the IP and know-how moat is sufficient. CleanTeQ holds a perpetual license from a high-level Russian research organization that provided some of the foundation technology. I am not a patent lawyer and a lot of the know-how will be proprietary, not patented. CleanTeQ has been at this for over ten years, I think the barriers to entry are sufficient.
MANAGEMENT Totally a plus. Robert Friedland is the Co-Chairman and CEO, he has 20% of the company, great credibility and clout with the Chinese, and an unbelievable track record in mining. Sam Reggall is the other co-chairman. I know little about him, other than from my observations of him on an Australian investment show that aired last week. He was impressive.
MONEY AND FINANCES I don’t think there is anything at all to worry about. Friedland must be worth billions, the Chinese are in, and the concept has enormous potential.
Sources: as I mentioned, information is scant. My sources were the CleanTeQ website, presentations and and interviews with Friedland and Reggall, and the sketchy information on the brokerage sites. Nothing you cannot find on your own.
Long CleanTeQ
This is a discussion topic or guest posting submitted by a Stock Gumshoe reader. The content has not been edited or reviewed by Stock Gumshoe, and any opinions expressed are those of the author alone.
Just took position in AUS MEI
What is it and why do you like it ?
MEI Aus Meteoric Resources.
I’ve taken a small position – not a long term position at present – this morning mainly because of the various metals across their holdings and following Tolga Kumova eg
Midrim, La Force in Quebec, and Iron Mask & Mulligan in Ontario.
Midrim has Ni, Cu, Co, Pgm
La Force Polymetallic, Cu, Ni, Co, Pgm
Mulligan Ni, Ag , high grade Co
Iron Mask Ag, Co
As always DYOR
Website: www. meteoric.com. au
Thanks, Williamstown
Billville has mentioned Tolga Kumova as someone worth watching.
This article is all I have read about him. Interesting guy
http://www.afr.com/business/how-tolga-kumova-was-robbed-bashed-and-infected-before-he-struck-it-rich-in-africa-20130918-jyiem
.No position yet in any company associated with him.
$MEI.asx #WVarticle – You have reached an article available exclusively to subscribers.
Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/how-tolga-kumova-was-robbed-bashed-and-infected-before-he-struck-it-rich-in-africa-20130918-jyiem#ixzz4v4fsP6yv
Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook
Tolga very loyal to his friends, doesn’t forget them, just treats them as normal humans.
Euc AUS has dropped to 24/25c aud, don’t panic, the brokers etc are just trying to get weak hands to sell.
Nothing’s changed, hold tight, announcement expected soon within next 10 days from Lab in Perth re grades on dump waste.
billville…sounds like the automatic pre-jump shakeout.
$CTEQF… charging ahead again in Australia, early trading $1.35 AUSD
Uh-oh. Back to $1.30. Katusa said get in and out quickly.
Katusa said it could double or triple in 12-24 months. The guy did 6 months worth of figures on CLQ!
What figures ? There is a new DFS on Cleanteq, and there is no income, no date for Syerston to produce anything, no way to know what metal prices will be when they produce. What 6 months of figures can one look at ?
Haven’t seen Katusa’s write up. I have a lot of respect for him and I agree that it could double or triple in 12-24 months, but I think the upside is a lot higher and that target sells the potential short.
$CTEQF Cleanteq Holdings…attention friends:
You know I am heavily invested in this company;
You know I am 100% confident in Robert Friedland; and
You know I have no special expertise or skill in geology, mining, molecular chemistry, finance, or any other subject you might want someone to have who is discussing resource stocks.
I have no inside information.
Nor do I know what the price of cobalt, nickel, or scandium will be in three years. Or even for tomorrow, for that matter.
Nor do I know when Syerston will be shipping anything.
So please discount my current enthusiasm to any degree you wish, up to and including 100%.
But I would like to share with you some of my thoughts that are based on information you can read for yourself in Cleanteq’s October 9 press release.
Combined with previous research, which is also available for you to verify from public sources, I am even more bullish on Cleanteq than I was a week ago, or at any time since I began following the company nearly a year ago.
***
The October 9 press release has a lot of figures, graphs, and explanations.
Because the future is so uncertain, and because of constraints and disclaimers they are required to make in public statements, it seems sometimes that the key information is hidden. But it is there. It is dressed in costume, and you have to make a lot of deductions and reasonable inferences to get at it. But it is there.
From my examination of this press release, I have made some “back-of-the-envelope” calculations.
My conclusion is that even at current stock prices and a market cap of three quarters of a billion dollars, Cleanteq is seriously undervalued.
I am not sure what upside multiple to it assign it; or what time frame.
But it is a significant upside multiple; and I am as certain about this as it is possible to be about such things as mining stocks.
***
1. EASPRING The key statistical basis is from data in the October 9 release that pertains to the binding agreement with Easpring for off-take in cobalt and nickel.
They cite specific tonnages per year, and they tell you the contained metal equivalent. Then they tell you that this off-take is expected to be 20% of the production they contemplate. If you convert the tonnages to pounds, and put any reasonable prices you like on the nickel and cobalt, you get a very large number. That number is about what Cleanteq will be taking to the bank every year from Easpring.
2. EASPRING is only 20%…But the Easpring off-take is just 20% of their production, and by extension only 20% of their income from nickel and cobalt.
But by my estimates, this figure is approximately of the same order of magnitude as their current market cap. Your numbers for nickel and cobalt prices may be different than my numbers. So just plug in your numbers.
Then multiply by 5x. Or only 4x, if you want to be careful. That is going to be your estimate of Cleanteq’s annual income someday from nickel and cobalt sulfate.
It will be a large number.
Yes, I know there will be a cost of production. So reduce the income number by what you think is reasonable. Then apply whatever conventional market metric you want.
3. SCANDIUM But before you apply your favorite metrics, don’t forget the scandium. They say they will be able produce up to 170 tons per year.
Yes, I know the world market is only 15 or 20 tons per year right now.
Yes, I know they are a few years away from producing any scandium.
Yes, I know they have no blockbuster off-take deal with Airbus yet.
So…pick number YOU think arereasonable for annual sales and the scandium price, and add it in there. Try 50 tons at $ 500 a pound and see what you get.
4. PLATINUM Oh I nearly forgot. They’ve got platinum, too. Of course they cannot divulge their plans for production yet, that would be premature !
They only say they are evaluating the economics of adding a platinum recovery circuit to the mine plan.
Gosh… I wonder if it will be worthwhile…platinum was only about $900 an ounce last time I looked. Maybe it won’t amount to anything.
It’s getting confusing remembering all these different metals and income streams.
Maybe I should wait for the DFS. I’m getting a headache from all those zeros.
5. MINING STRATEGY They spend a lot of time explaining their mining strategy at Syerston. There are a lot of details., but the upshot is they will be able to target ore blocks that have certain percentage mixes and grades of the three metal targets, depending on market conditions. If cobalt goes up, they mine blocks with higher cobalt grades. If scandium and nickel go up, they will mine blocks richer in scandium and nickel. And so on.
By taking the mineral totals by mining block they will also be able to discard the use of traditional “cut-off grades” for individual metals, and “blend” ore from blocks that would be discarded as waste in other projects. Less waste, better economics, longer mine life.
Elastic response to higher prices. Higher income, lower costs, efficient production. This is worth money.
***
Now the five aspects above pertain to just the SYERSTON PROJECT, whose start date is uncertain. Could be two years. Or three years. Could be five. They aren’t saying. But they have stated that the completion of Syerston is the SOLE PRIORITY of the metal division.
Don’t make the same mistake the mining analysts are making: remember that SYERSTON is just a project of CLEANTEQ. Syerston is not the entire company.
CLEANTEQ also has the following potential income streams:
6. MINERAL RECOVERY They will be installing mineral recovery circuits in major mines in the near future. They will own or JV them. This not pie-in-the-sky. They have stated they are working with a major uranium mine, and a major gold mine, and expect at least one of the two to be realized. And The Boss still owns Kipushi, the former world heavyweight champion volume-and-grade zinc/germanium/silver/lead/copper mine, which was making piles of waste ore and tailings since 1924. And Friedland has lots of other contacts and projects where he is somewhat influential. So…pick a number, your guess is as good as anyone else’s. But at some point not very long away from now, Cleanteq is going to have a portfolio of virtual mines that are generating income from waste ore.
7. WATER TREATMENT AND PURIFICATION The water division is a JV partner with Chinese quasi-state entities, one of which controls hydro on the Yang-tse River. This JV holds a binding contract for water purification in a large municipality. And Cleanteq has a co-Chairman who is connected with a giant Chinese hair-ball of a conglomerate, who is beating the bushes for more business.
Check the Cleanteq Water website. Are you going to be surprised when the contracts start coming in ?
8. AFRICA If you are long Cleanteq, do yourself a favor and look at the MULTOTEC website, if you haven’t done so. Multotec is the Cleanteq distributor for Africa. Check them out. Do you think Cleanteq will get any business from mines in South Africa ?
***
What does all this mean to me as an investor ?
It means I am very comfortable with Cleanteq as my largest resource position.
It means that Cleanteq is a long-term core position. Untouchable. Sacred. Absolutely untouchable, unless I find something better.
It means that I do not yet have an exit price target, because
it may take a few years for Cleanteq to reach “full value”…whatever that is.
Right now I have no idea of full value is. But it is a lot higher than $1.00.
I intend to hold Cleanteq for the foreseeable future, and I am looking forward to the ride.
You should see CLQ guidance by Macquarie against blue chip IGO and OZL on the ASX – look at their market caps.
Johnnn, connect the dots for me…not sure what you are referring to or what implication you are pointing at…
Feel free to email me.
Johnnn, if you have something to add, do so. We are rather open on this discussion and we do not try to play games with information we may have. Again, if you have something to say, just say it . . . to the entire group of us.
Sorry to be blunt and maybe I misread you. But again–if you have something to add, please just do so.
Long CleanTeq.
Johnnn…I saw that Macquarie raised target to $2.10. Is this what you are referring to ?
These analysts have to stay within limits that seem reasonable.
If they have targets that are too high they risk looking foolish.
They have to discount speculative potential like scandium prospects.
Blog writers like us can say anything that pops into our minds.
We can post outrageous predictions. When Cleanteq is selling for 80 cents in September, we can say things like:
“Cleanteq will hit $1.00 this year, maybe even this month.”
I see it the same way.
After doing a lot of DD, I’ve taken a position with Ardea [ARRRF]. I thought 70 cents was a reasonable entry. Market cap 60 Mil. Second best cobalt deposit in australia to cleanteq, and with plenty of further exploration upside. They have tons more cobalt then anybody if you count low grade, but a nice sized super high grade zone. When I compared Ardea to Platina, it was obvious to me Ardea was the better investment. At least for me, because I’m in it mostly for the cobalt. Plus Ardea has a clear path towards quick mine construction and even production by 2020, while Platina will probably just languish until somebody takes them over. So I thought I would swap my Platina position for Ardea. But I really don’t want to sell my Platina, because at 25 mil MC, it is ridiculously underpriced. All I want is a double, so I can pull back my principal, and ride my profit. So I instead trimmed my Kirkland, its up a remarkable 150% since I bought it this year, so a standard trim high move. So now I own 3 different australian cobalt/nickel/scandium properties, I hope I’m right that this paradigm looks like a really good business moving forward, and for Platina and Ardea, the cost of the company relative to the value of the asset seems compelling to me. Australian cobalt is blue gold in the new energy revolution, like striking oil in texas 100 years ago. Nickel should also do well.
Travis J. is almost certain that Ardea is the recent Casey tease for cobalt production in Australia.
Renby….. I had previously looked at Ardea but not in great detail. It seems they have access to great resources. Do you know how far along they are with their processing plant? The possession of an autoclave is the litmus test here.
Renby…I agree Ardea is a good speculation if one is looking for a cobalt development play. Overall I happen to agree with you in your assessment here.
However I am sticking with Platina for the reasons you mentioned. It is just very cheap for the asset they are sitting on.
I have only two positions in cobalt, Cleanteq and Platina, and they are basically the same deposit; I see it as one bet.
If I expand my tickers in cobalt, the first two I will look at are EUC and Ardea.
EUC carries some urgency based on the intel from Williamstown; and there is a good chance the grades in the waste dumps at EUC are higher than the ore grades
at Ardea and Platina.
Will the rising tide of CleanTeQ lift Platina?
Probably. It is a “halo” tag-along real estate speculation. But Platina is right next door to Cleanteq, they are neighbors. So I also think there is a chance that Cleanteq will acquire them, or that Platina will make a deal to process their ore at Syerston instead of building their own facility.
Platina has a deposit very similar in size and grade to Syerston and the market cap is minuscule. So the way I was looking at it, Cleanteq could double their in-ground resource for a very low price, even though Syerston is not exactly hurting for mine life.
I could be wrong about the outcome here. It is even possible that the development of Syerston would hurt Platina…they may have an asset that is unattractive to develop or finance simply because Syerston is next door, and Syerston can do it faster, better and cheaper than a new developer.
Cleanteq could say, “We don’t care about your deposit, and we are not going to share our autoclave capacity with you, either. So take a hike, go get your own autoclave, and raise a gazillion to build your own mine if that’s what you want to do. Maybe the Koreans are interested. Good luck, neighbor.”
I am now as invested in australian cobalt as in gold. By association, I also own a ton of nickel and scandium, but my attraction has always been cobalt. I will stay with gold investments for at least the medium term, as a hedge against fiat money depreciation. But as I look to also hedge against being over-invested in gold, which has some fuzzy fundamentals due to manipulation, I have surveyed the different flavors of metals, and cobalt is like pistachio ice cream, green and uniquely tasty. Really the info is very readily out there for anyone to see, cobalt demand is going to challenge supply for the coming decade. It is not completely pie in the sky. There will be competition, and the higher the price goes the more fierce that competition will become. I don’t know how much it may rise in price, but the pressure will be up for a long time. Of all the metals, it is the one that most predictably will be supply constrained relative to increasing demand [I am accumulating copper also]. I figure at some point, we will get a cobalt bubble. That bubble could push cobalt over the $50/lb mark, and maybe even peak at significantly higher than that. There is also the potential for africa to go dysfunctional, then owners of australian cobalt mines would be sitting pretty. These stocks would all explode, and if cobalt does go mania at some point, that would be the sell signal [not cleanteq, they have way more going for them than cobalt]. That’s the way I see it, that’s the way I’m playing it. Long cleanteq, platina, ardea.
I saw one guy do a quick analysis of ardea with some basic reasonable numbers, and just with the cobalt, giving no value to the nickel or scandium, came up with a valuation 4.5 times present stock price, platina at 25 mil MC in same situation, their cobalt in the ground is worth so many multiples their stock price, these companies own their land 100%. Scandium for all these companies could be a monster, that is more speculative with ridiculous upside, but the cobalt is like striking oil 100 years ago, its pistachio flavored green gold.
Even without African chaos, Australian cobalt will be favored over African cobalt due to both ethical and reliability concerns. Since Africa currently supplies 60% of the worlds cobalt…….. these Australian Cobalt deposits that are selling in the 25-60 million range, that are high grade and have scandium and nickel bonus dollars, you can get rich off of these IMO.
Honestly, Platina is highly sketchy from some vantage points. They think they are a scandium company, which amuses me. I think now they have woken up to realizing they need to define their cobalt resource. Which should be substantial. Nobody will ever finance them as a scandium mine. They like to consider themselves cleanteq’s twin brother, but they are like my two nephews. One is a doctor, and the other is….. well lets say he is trying to figure it out. But one thing I am almost positive of. At some point, probably within a year, their stock price will double from what I bought it, and then I cash in half. Free Australian cobalt for Renby, with nickel and scandium bonus. Like taking a bottle from a baby.
Agree on Platina. It is an empty lot with a nice plan for a plant that is not going to get built.
Strictly real estate in a location near a a pair of autoclaves, with metal in the ground.
Reny I hope you’re correct re cobalt etc in the long run.
EUC – Release Date: 11/10/17 08:34
Summary: Refurbishment of Joremeny Adit Commences at Dobsina
Price Sensitive: Yes
More good news
SS interesting that Rob Jewson mentioned for the first time I can recollect silver?
The opening buys & sells looks like someone is still trying to suppress the sp.
It’s amazing that Friedland saw this years ago, and has made the moves he has to prepare for it.
We have the same lenses on for the big picture, but I am taking a more diversified approach to the electrical boom. Besides cobalt, I am very interested in copper and nickel. The zinc and PGMs I get as bonuses on Ivanhoe companies.
And I have a major gold component in my mix.
HN….Looking at the “heavy” metals that make up the power systems of current and some planned EV’s, they are copper (as the metal itself), then nickel and cobalt as solid compounds, and a lithium salt in solution as the electrolyte. Because of cost considerations, the cobalt sulphate content is being reduced in favor of the nickel salt as evidenced by recent battery cathode formulations put out for tender by VW. So this would suggest an order of copper, then nickel, followed by cobalt and then lithium, as quantities from greatest to least in current and trending power systems of EV’s.
eagerbeaver…In the main battery materials, I am invested in copper, nickel, and cobalt.
I am taking a pass in lithium and graphite, not because they will not be in demand, but because I do not like the investment landscape from my perspective.
**
TECHNO-MINERS On the rare metals needed in technology, for batteries and other applications, I am not going to chase around dozens of nano-cap prospectors. I will go with a new class of investments I have named “techo-miners”. These include Cleanteq, Ucore, and Niocorp. I’m sure there are some others. At the moment I am long only Cleanteq, no position on Ucore (favorably inclined) or Niocorp (no opinion, no position).
**
Have you gone to the “Our Markets” section of the Cleanteq website, and looked at the periodic table of the elements
with Cleanteq’s possible extraction targets ?
HN…. I am also favorably inclined and wish to know more about Ucore.
Yes, I have seen the Periodic Table (PT) in the “Our Markets” section of CleanTeQ ‘s website. Now, I understand their list of target metals above the PT but I don’t know if CleanTeQ is saying that they themselves can extract the metals highlighted in black in the PT. The Group IA Alkali Metals highlighted, namely Sodium (Na), Potassium (K), Rubidium (Rb) and Caesium (Cs) react by catching fire and exploding in the presence of water and water vapor, and are extremely dangerous, especially the latter two. Caesium can cause a major explosion. And in the Group IIA list, Radium is highlighted.
Long CleanTeQ of course.
eagerbeaver…Cleanteq extraction targets…the color coding on the PT is a little confusing, but I think all the colored type categories can be extracted.
They have prioritized their targets in the type-written list. They say in big type:
“CLEANTEQ TECHNOLOGY CAN BE USED TO EXTRACT THE FOLLOWING ELEMENTS:…”… then comes the list.
**
I suspect there are materials they can extract which are not priorities for them.
For example, they do not list lithium in the typewritten list, nor do they highlight it on the PT.
But I will bet dollars to donuts that they could, if they wanted to. It’s just that they don’t want to.
Why be bothered with a million inquiries on something that which has a thousand guys producing trying to produce it and is lying around in huge quantities on the surface of the earth ?
Friedland has stated he is not enthusiastic about lithium. So why would he try to produce it, even if he could ? He has better targets.
HN…. Are we looking at the same list? Mine is headed with Metals and then on the next line, “Clean-iX can be used to recover the following metals” ( in bold ). Then they give the list which fortunately does not include any Group IA Alkali Metals.
If CleanTeQ decides to get into the business of extracting Alkali Metals, then I would probably get on the phone to them and ask them what the hell are they doing before selling my entire position. There are much, much safer things to do in life than extracting Caesium. Such extraction would be a hugely dangerous enterprise. Now, if they are talking about extracting or recovering the salts of Alkali Metals, then that would be an entirely different matter.
Eager,
“Clean-iX can be used to recover the following metals” ( in bold )”… Same list.
You are contradicting yourself. On the one hand you say it is unfortunate if they cannot extract X, but then you say they are crazy if they do extract X.
**
I think my interpretation is correct.
What they can do, and what they offer to do, are and what they get contracts to do, are all different. But they are subsets of what they CAN do.
They are trying to succeed industrially. They are not trying to score 100% on an element extraction contest on the periodic table.
As a business they are focussed on metals and are going after cobalt, scandium, nickel, and maybe some platinum, at the Syerston project.
As a business they are going into mineral recovery, and water purification.
They may get a lot of elements X and Y as byproducts when they are going after target element Z. Who knows.
***
They do not care which elements their customers are after. If it is economical for them, they will do it if they are able. They are not in the cesium recover business but if someone needs it and can pay a sufficient cost, they would probably do it…
set up the installation, give the key to the client with warnings, get their fee, and say “adios.”
I was meaning that I’m glad that they are not proposing to isolate any extremely dangerous element in their list.
To answer your question, my interpretation of the chart is that they are offering extraction, or saying they can extract, any element that has a shaded block in the PT. That would include Na, K, Rb, and Cs, which are shaded.
My interpretation of the unshaded elements,
is that they are not offering to extract them. This might be for technical reasons (they cannot or don’t know how), or it may be that they just don’t want to offer it (they could do it, but it’s not needed or is not attractive economically).
If you need a really conclusive answer you should contact them.
I think you are confusing the metals with the ions. Sodium, as the ion, as in salt, sodium chloride does not catch fire. All of these are dealt with in solution, so they are ions, not the metals themselves.
The Elements themselves are highlighted in black in the presentation as being extractable. I’m very interested to find out if Clean-iX technology can safely extract/recover/purify Group IA Alkali Metals without blowing up the facility.
HN – you could add Nano One (NNO: TSXV) to your list of Techno Miners. I love the term!
…also we are missing manganese. Don’t know the first thing about it, but it is another battery material.
Re Lithium, You have a finished product for most uses at the end of using evaporation ponds so it has no need for Cleantek methodology for salable
commodity. No fit there.
https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2014/3087/pdf/fs2014-3087.pdf
Manganese major use ( 90% ) is in steel industry and so reflects world prosperity as does Copper Zinc and Iron. Battery use will always be small (compared with steel use ) as will Cobalt and Vanadium. All three are driven by steel use . That is not a bad thing but EV demand will not be great until world production of wealth improves. Then it will increase already large demand and drive prices up. You can lump nickel in with them as stainless steel is main consumer.
It is intriguing that Cleantek is very well positioned for near future IMO.
renby…liking your approach, we see things similarly.
The main difference is that I am more diversified in the non-gold metals, notably PGMs, copper and zinc.
I concede that the known supply/demand and sourcing situation is the most favorable for cobalt, itt may be the best metal of them all.
I’ve took a good bite of Ivanhoe, and it is up 70% for me so now its a whole meal, plus hopefully cordoba finds a bonanza of copper. I may look for more non-african copper as time goes on, but you’re right, I concentrate a little more in the narrow bands that I get fixated on. I like the magnified gains when I’m right.
Everybody has to do it their own way.
We are both looking for big returns.
I went looking for copper outside the DRC, and was happy to find Cordoba. I figured if Friedland is looking for more copper and he already has KKKW, I maybe should also.
He went all-in with Cordoba pretty fast. Blazing speed.
It’s a speculation but we may have good news within a month.
Last 7 closings for CTEQF: .82, .84, .88, .90, .91, 1.02, 1.04. We kind of skipped over the 90s, and wouldn’t surprise me if we retraced over them at some point, but we’re on a 7 game hitting streak, we’ll see if we can keep on going. For the moment, not a penny stock anymore.
Renby, it sort of looks like there is a vacuum cleaner sucking up everything on progressively higher steps.
I think the best thing I can do to prepare for a shakeout is to have more cash so I can buy more if it goes back under $1.00.
Yesterday’s action in OZ was good. The stock went to $1.38 AUSD and fell back, but held at $1.30 AUSD, the previous close. After the big run-up and the pause in OZ, the US prices made a small gain today. Very good sign after an explosive move up.
CTEQF The stock action has been beautiful. I fully loaded up at 62 cents, and so its only trimming from this point forward. First target for a trim isn’t til US$2. At that point i could sell 30%, get all my original capital back, and still have about 2.3X my original overweight money in stock. At 4 I can cash out a truly life changing amount, and still have over 2X my original investment in stock. It may seem silly and delusional to be planning a stock to multiply more than 6X purchase price, but that’s the way I see it, that’s the way I’m playing it.
It looks like there may be some profit-taking on CleanTeQ going on in Sydney at the moment. I’m watching for a future buying in opportunity.
Close observation, right reaction. Will you have the
nerve to buy more if it drops to 79 cents ? It could happen.
HN….. I sold part of my CleanTeQ holding early Monday morning when I saw that the stock was up 12c in the US market. I felt that it would start to decline from that position and it has. Now, the question becomes where to get back in? Will the stock become a “falling safe”? I very much doubt it but I will have fun guessing. Maybe it will become a “rolling stock” but with a generally upward trajectory. We’ll see. Ideally, I would like to follow the Casey doctrine and eventually end up playing with the house’s money. Hopefully.
$CTEQF did the same EagerBeaver, ‘cept last Friday #B2Yaz
Eagerbeaver, your orientation is, well, very…EAGER.
I am old and slow but am looking long-term.
You want to sell the next day on a move that I have been waiting on for a year.
That’s OK but this thread is from a long-term perspective. Prices zig-zag and we will never know why every zig and zag occurs.
Occasionally on account of circumstances we may get short-term opportunities. But that is not the intent.
I think the long-term prospects are tremendous.
So I will take the spikes and corrections.
I think some day you will think back and say,
“My gosh, I could have bought that stock at $1.00”. I do not trust myself to sell at the top of spikes or buy at the bottom of corrections.
But that is just me.
HN….. I quite understand. I just had a feeling it would fall off and eventually establish a new base. I’m just having fun and enjoying the experience. I still have 75% of my original position. CleanTeQ is undoubtedly a winner.
Renby, I do not think it is delusional at all to plan for success
or plan an exit strategy.
We need to prepare ourselves to deal with big paper profits, because we really do not know how we will react when we have a huge profit on a position, and then we get a pullback.
We need to have a plan and we need to have clear objectives.
We may not have the make-up to follow the plan, we may not achieve our objectives; but we need to have them. Otherwise we will get carried away by the emotions of the moment.
**
Just as a lot of us want to sell at lows and downturns, some of us will have trouble leaving fat profits alone for fear they will disappear.
Most of us probably have a lot more familiarity with situations where we are looking at gut-wrenching losses rather than euphoria-inducing gains. But the emotions start to kick in either way, and we need to learn how to deal with them and have position sizes we can handle emotionally.
If you are in CLQ at 62 cents, and the price some day goes from $1.75 to $2.45, then back to 1.95, and the profit is very important to you, what will you do ? A lot of people would bail, even if they believe potential is to hit $6.00 someday.
And selling out might be the best thing. Who is to say ?
**
I try to maintain a long-term outlook. I look to hold until specific events occur, not specific prices.
With Mariana Resources, I had to go through the emotions of the coup in Turkey. But the event I was waiting for was a buyout. And when it happened, I got a little badly needed practice in dealing with a big profit.
My core holdings are Cleanteq, Sandstorm, Ivanhoe, and Pretium. What am I waiting for ?
With Ivanhoe, there may be political turmoil in DRC. But the event I am waiting for is full production at KKKW.
With Cleanteq, there are so many possible future scenarios, I have not decided what is a good “event target.” Why sell out because cobalt hits X, or the stock hits $2, when they haven’t even started to get mine extraction projects and water contracts coming in ?
With Pretium, I am at an event: the achievement of their
production and grade objectives. If the objectives are met, I keep it. If they are not met, it depends; I have to check out why, and evaluate the future prospects.
With Sandstorm Gold, I have no event or price target at all.
I look at Sandstorm Gold as cash in the bank. If I see a great investment, then I might use some of the cash in the Bank of
Sandstorm. But the investment had better be a good one.
I am putting my money in there.
Fat profits can easily be protected with options.
EUC AUS sp dropped to 21/22c on some profit taking, and options being converted mainly by the directors to assist in financing the activities being carried out in Dobsina.
I’ve purchased more this morning at these prices as nothing fundamentally has changed.
auz+clq+euc+jrv+ncz+pgm+mei http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/equityPrices.do?by=asxCodes&asxCodes=auz+clq+euc+jrv+ncz+pgm+mei
What is the stock symbol for EUC AUS . I trade on T D Ameritrade. can I buy it there? thanks mark
$EUC.asx is sole symbol found… Personally. use Interactivebrokers.com VERY satisfied with their service. AUD.USD converstion / rate. Best2ALL
Reasonable explanation and I am thinking about going in, didn’t want to buy at the recent spikey top.
COBALT WARS…Renby and Williamstown…thanks you for your persistence in presenting your viewpoints. Strongly considering Ardea and EUC as more direct cobalt plays.
Mostly considering how to raise the money without selling off any Cleanteq.
My allocation would likely have to come from copper, silver, or gold investments.
***
Ardea’s investor presentation has a lot of good stuff in it. They make no bones about their competitors and have a nice chart comparing basic data between themselves, Cleanteq, and AUZ. Anyone interested in Australian cobalt should check it out.
***
A few things about the cobalt contestants. I do not mean to slam them, I am interested in taking a position; but these are just things that I noticed that have to be evaluated and that one should be aware of.
TIMETABLES By their own admission, Ardea is at least 16 months behind Syerston in terms of arriving at a DFS. If you add in the construction and financing times, in which Cleanteq has the autoclave advantage, you have to arrive at a difference of at least three years between the production dates for Syerston and Ardea’s cobalt resource. EUC is probably even farther out. Point being, one must be prepared for a really long term investment to maximize or arrive at production day, unless you are a short-term trader and using these companies as a cobalt future. No harm in that.
COMPANY FOCUS My intention is to consider a more cobalt-only speculation. In this respect, while Ardea’s priority is their cobalt/nickel target in Kalgoorlie, Ardea itself has a large number of projects that must detract somewhat from that focus.
This is a much different situation than at Cleanteq metals, where there is one project which is the complete focus of Cleanteq’s metal division, or EUC;
or weak sister Platina, who has just one egg in their basket.
Ardea was a gold explorer until 2016. They are only two years into the cobalt mindset, whereas Friedland has been plotting his thing for at least twice as long and is in the process of executing his plan.
GRADE WARS It looks like all the OZ cobalt players are puffing themselves up for bragging rights on deposit size and quality. Platina comes out with a higher cobalt number because they need to improve it. Ardea brags they have the largest contained metal figure, and tries to improve their ore grade, which is weak. Then Cleanteq comes in with higher grades and resources. At this point I think they are all probably good enough; And Cleanteq is saying,
” Look, we can massage the grade thing any which way to want, we got a mining plan that is going to render this cut-off grade thing obsolete, and we are going to get all the metal out of our ore. ”
I think all the OZ grades may be bested by EUC anyway, and the stuff is already above ground in the waste heaps.
FINANCING don’t know about the position of Ardea but for sure there is going to be dilution, they will have to raise a lot of money. But the market cap is nice and low, $60 mil or so. In their presentation, they look longingly at CLQ’s market cap to show how low they are. (Of course, CLQ has a lot more going for it than cobalt from Syerston.)
In contrast, the EUC market cap is pretty high for a company that is waiting drill results and waste ore assays.
Oh well. Nothing is perfect.
Long Cleanteq and Platina.
Favorably inclined ARRRF and EUC, but the money will not come out of Cleanteq.
”
COMPANY FOCUS My intention is to consider a more cobalt-only speculation. In this respect, while Ardea’s priority is their cobalt/nickel target in Kalgoorlie, Ardea itself has a large number of projects that must detract somewhat from that focus.”
And then there is this little teaser from their investment highlights,
“Plan to expedite drill programs with a view accelerate gold mining cash flow, or possibly to spin-out non-core assets into separate listed vehicle(s)”
Q.E.D.
HN I agree with you that CLQ is a core future guilt edged stock, and thoughts, however, on the timelines I think EUC will be first.
Dobsina is EUC’s flagship and presently mgt are leaving nothing unturned in trying to prove that the high grades do exist consistently on the land holdings.
Although small and speculative at the moment that can change with consistent high grades of cobalt and nickel and proven resources project throughout the holdings
I think that if successful a sp of $1/2 aud or higher is possible within 12/24 mths.
As we all know or should know nothing is certain, , but could definitely be achievable if goals are met.
Just like your good article above on forward planning etc, you should invest with your head not your heart/ emotions.
It’s still high rewards low risk, but the outcome should become much clearer as the project continues.
If successful I can assure you that Tolga will go knocking on multinational doors around the world.
Rob Jewson a director is overseeing the drilling operations in Dobsina.
NCZ which is also connected to Tolga choose debt financing over CR, and I think they’ll do likewise once they’ve completed all the operations in Slovakia, which is being financed by mgt exercising their options.
Drilling results will determine its fate, and in the end the sp.
Question answered above. Please delete this post.
EUC need to prove up a resource. Develop a flowsheet.
Buy autoclaves.
Get backing.
Syerston is 2/3 years ahead.
Johnnn with all due respect we will wait and see!
Timelines…very interested in EUC. I will be surprised if they beat Syerston to production. but since they are on an existing mine site they may have a leg up on time to production, when and if a concrete decision is made.
I do not think it is a killer either way. Long term it won’t make much difference. If the orebody is as good as it sounds, EUC will make it on grades, location and logistics. It won’t matter too much who is first. But remember that Syerston is already taking orders.
It’s fun to watch the cobalt guys going all-out for deposit and grade bragging rights, and to watch them racing against each other. But they are all chasing Cleanteq. And Friedland has an advantage. He is riding a horse and around the first turn. The other guys are on foot.
Friedland as a jockey now, like it hn……yes he’ll probably always be ahead as first out the blocks and pedigree, wonder what his horse is called?
SS I think a good name would be Above The Rest or Ahead Of The Rest ?
What do other gummies think?
It’s a horse race.
I am going to prepare the in-race commentary for the Cobalt Sweepstakes.
The analysts are Ren, Billville and Hen.
Here is the intro:
HEN: “Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the 2017 Cobalt Sweepstakes.
This is your host Hendrixnuzzles, on-line from Stock Gumshoe, with expert color commentary from Billville and Ren.
It’s going to be an exciting race, with Cleanteq on the board at a 3:1 favorite. But some people have other ideas, right, Ren?”
REN: “Absolutely. Consensus is that Cleanteq
finishes first, but there are some strong challengers. The other Australian companies have been training hard and may pull off an upset. Tell you the truth, I have a hunch that Ardea may surprise.
BILLVILLE: Yes, Ardea is a good dark horse.
And don’t discount EUC, the European entry, They are a long shot, but they’ve got tremendous grades and their jockey Tolga Kumova, is one hell of a jockey who people don’t know about. I;m telling you, they have the grades to pull an upset.”
HEN: It’s almost post time. It’s going to be a great race. So stay tuned, folks…we’ll be back in a moment.”
HN as we Aussies say ‘ you’re a funny bugger’
HN you’ve a great sense of humour, I’m up to the challenge!
CLEANTEQ
Williamstown, forgive me if I missed this but European Cobalt was once known as Western Mining Network, no? When I do a lookup on Fidelity for European Cobalt, that is what comes up with a ticker of WMNNF. What is confusing for me though is that the price is down at US $.06. Would you have any insights here? Thanks.
Bridutt you’re probably correct as it was WMN asx code Western Mining Limited, but to my knowledge it only trades in Aust as EUC asx.
The sp at the moment is around 23/24c aud, so if you’re thinking of buying that’s the only ticker as far as I’m aware.
The offloading of options during this week, which lead to a sp drop wasn’t by the present mgt – though that is how I understand they’re going to finance their present operations in Slovakia – but an ex director.
I hope that helps explain your query.
Thank you, Williamstown. I signed up for International trading with Fidelity and now I can buy the EUC ticker. I will have to do some research to figure out what the other ticker is. The Australian ticker for European Cobalt comes up as European Cobalt RK ORD and the ticker in the US comes up as European Cobalt NPV and like I said, it is trading at $.06 so I will have to do some investigating to see what the difference is. Either way, thanks for the heads up for this company
Bridutt, EUC:AU is the symbol. I use Fidelity, and activated international trading last summer.
That worked. Thanks deanbob
$AUZ, MEI & EUC up with volume I:39p in AU October 12th, 17: http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/equityPrices.do?by=asxCodes&asxCodes=auz+clq+euc+jrv+ncz+pgm+mei
Just to say I had taken a Long position in AUZ a good few months back and yesterday it hit up 30% to 3.4cents. I only got in because like PGM I thought it might interest CLQ Friedland. Think it could go further as they have a big land area and seem to be attracting some attention.
Also Long, CLQ, PGM, EUC btw.
Your nut cache is growing nicely. Just in time, winter is around the corner.
2017 Cobalt Sweepstakes…more pre-race color from Hen, Ren and Billville
HEN: We seem to have the favorites covered. Any other horses that might figure ?
REN: Well, I’m not sure any others can win, but there are some that might put a little pressure on and post good times. Like AUZ,
for instance.
BILLVILLE: I’ve heard about Platina. What do you think ?
REN: They might show a burst in the beginning but I don’t think they have the stamina to win at the finish line. And this is a big race for them, they’ve never seen the pressure of a big stakes race.
No chance.
HEN: Well, I agree with you. They are a 100-to-one shot to win the race. But they do train with Cleanteq, on the same track. I think they have a good strategy and while they don’t have the ability to win, I think the have a chance to place or show, with a buyout. Their jockey looks good in the trials.
REN: He’ll fold under the pressure of a big race. Talented but no experience racing against horses like these. What about the rest of the field ?
HEN: There’s some other names but I don’t know much about them. Like eCobalt and Prophecy. A few others, too.
BILLVILLE: Yeah, there’s some others here and there, but EUC has the best chance of an upset, and the payoff odds are very attractive.
HEN: Yeah, I saw those grades. Very impressive. Just not sure Tolga can beat Friedland. Tolga is a very talented jockey, but RF has won the Triple Crown and is a Hall-of-Famer.
Okay, enough banter. What’s your call ?
BILLVILLE: Well, I am going out on a limb here, but I’m picking EUC to win in an upset over Cleanteq. Third place, I dunno. It’s going to be a dogfight.
REN: I think Ardea and Cleanteq are about 50/50 to win.
If the race was run 10 times, I would think Cleanteq would win 6 out of the ten. But Ardea has been really showing some focus and determination to win this particular race. They have a shot. And some of the other horses from Australia may do very well. Someone may surprise
for second or third. I’m spreading my bets.
HEN: Thanks, guys.
I say Cleanteq by a length, with Platina and EUC a distant second and Ardea just behind them.
(TRUMPET BLOWS)
HEN: OK, the horses are entering the starting gates. Here we go !
**
And EVERY furlong the SP goes UP on each horse… The #Gr8Gummunity takes all & WINS! 🙂 ThankYOU, HendrixNuzzles & Gummunity! #Best2ALL
HN is it too late for one other, which I’m hearing excellent track reports on, a younger horse starting out with its first run from Ontario which may end up being a Canadian Flyer called Mei ?
Early days, with no race form to go on, but I believe really good blood lines, and that man again being his trainer – Tolga
Billville…Make the call as you see it. Just put in perspective with the others in terms of where they are in the race. Try to highlight why you think they are even in the race.
2017 Cobalt Sweepstakes… “AND…THEY’RE OFF !”
(This broadcast has been time-delayed to bring you up-to-date)
HEN: They’re off !
REN: Wow, Cleanteq has shot out of the gate fast !
HEN: Look at that off-take agreement. That’s a big advantage going into the first turn.
BILLVILLE: EUC is hanging in there. Their grades will keep them in the race.
REN: Platina is only a length and a half back, but they are laboring. Don’t think they can keep up the pace. And Ardea is within striking distance, only a length and a half back.
HEN: What a blistering pace. I’ve never seen anything like it. They are just in the first turn and Cleanteq already has two autoclaves.
BILLVILLE: Tolga is whipping his horse really hard.
HEN: Look at the improved cobalt grades at Platina ! They’ve really been working on that…wait..here comes Cleanteq with a news release increasing cobalt reserves…
REN: Ardea says they are getting rid of non-core assets to focus on cobalt ! And their total resource is the biggest.
BILLVILLE EUC says they have sample assays coming…next week ! EUC is drilling too, and threatening really high grades on both fresh ore and existing waste.
HEN WITH THE CALL: Entering the first turn it’s CLEANTEQ with a length-and a-half over ARDEA and PLATINA neck-and-neck. EUC is three lengths back but moving fast and threatening to make a move on the outside. CLEANTEQ is shattering the track record and looking smooth…the others are doing well to stay close…
BILLVILLE: EUC has the strength to make a move.
REN: I don’t believe Cleanteq can break the track record by that much. They will fade a little.
HEN: We’ll see. Those autoclaves will mean record time down the stretch.
**
You are now up-to-date on the 2017 Cobalt Sweepstakes. The DFS is the second turn, financing is the third turn, and construction and commissioning are the home stretch.
HN you should’ve been a race caller – what talent !
Thanks, but I am a little slow for that.
On this race we have a few years. These developers will probably take two years minimum for these companies to be at fuull production. My guess is that Cleanteq will first at three years, with the others trailing.
Maybe EUC, Ardea, or someone else will surprise. But they will need autoclaves.
I have to admit a little daylight on EUC’s chances because I realized they are on a mine site. They did make an announcement that they are refurbishing the mine adit, so they seem to be doing stuff on the ground to prepare for real mining, although the refurb could just be to get test drills in there.
Maybe they already have an autoclave. Maybe an old one is already there and just needs to be cleaned up and recommissioned.
In that case they stand a chance of being first to production among the companies discussed, they just need to raise money.
As you are a stockholder, I suggest you would be well-served to inquire of EUC about this; and we would all be grateful if you would share the information with us. In my opinion that would make a significant change to their chances of getting into production quickly. I am persuaded of the grades.
Williamstown…re: MEI…I took a quick look and I have interest in checking it further.
Since MEI appears to be a project generator, it is not really apples-to-apples to compare it to
Cleanteq or Platina. Even though Ardea is also somewhat of a project generator,
they seem to be directing most of their energy to their cobalt project, and are at least talking like they want to build a mine.
IMO, MEI is comparable to Condor Resources in terms of structure. Condor is strictly into silver, while MEI has an attractive diversified target base. Both are highly prospective and speculative and may be worth a shot, if one has money to speculate. But they are not going to win any races to production, from what I can see.
**
Tolga Kumova…he is for sure somebody to watch. He has his fans: when he relinquished some of his responsibilities at Syrah, the market killed the stock even though he remains affiliated. He is dynamic and energetic individual but it seems clear he is not a completely-rounded character for running a mining operation.
He seems like a combination of Indiana Jones, Elon Musk, salesman, and stockbroker pirate who happens to be in mining. I am not being critical at all, he is a fascinating character and I am interested in his activities, thanks to you.
**
I think you are right about the Australian investment community not recognizing the potential of Cleanteq,
even though it is more widely followed in Australia than in the US.
I say this after strolling through the threads on Hot Copper. The investor focus is very much on corporate moves,
technical price action, who is buying it, impact of specific announcements, insider activity, and so forth; generally, very short-term in outlook and mostly one-liners. Maybe this is because of the high numbers of penny mining stock there. To the average Aussie mining speculator, maybe Cleanteq is just another flash in the pan.
**
Very happy you are active here. Please stick around, we need eyes and ears on the ground over there.
Best regards
HN again well summarised, the attraction and attention that MEI is generating with hype in well connected circles is for cobalt.
Without question IMO CLQ is the standout investment over the longer term with clearly potential plus in so many areas.
In the short, medium term I don’t think you can disregard EUC as an investor, as if it attains it’s grades across it’s holdings the stock will be solidly re rated.
Just ask yourself why did Tolga elect EUC to be his main cobalt and nickel play?
RF is definitely without question the master, TK is the young up and coming guy, probably helped by the current environment- but as they say you have to create your own
I come from california with a guitar on my knee,
I’m going to australia, for my blue cobalt to see,
Oh Platina, Oh don’t you cry for me,
Just double up to 18 cents, I want my shares for free.
HN we gummies are truly fortunate to be involved in Travis’s publication as there is so many great investment ideas and opportunities across the individual threads.
Stockgumshoe is the place to be!
Hope Aussies selling…will be money in my pocket IMHO as a buyer you understand… Cheers
US market getting wacky to the upside compared to Aussie closing price.
1.25 AU = .98US we are at 1.04 now.
rubberworm…could be that more US money is waking up and starting to have more of an influence.
$More likely, the ignorant that are unable/unaware of AUD.USD conversion.
Over time the Aussie dollars should gain against the US dollars. They have stuff people need. Like a lot of metals.
At one time the $AU was as low as 0.50 and then went over $1.10 in July 2011.
EUC asx topped up again today, fundamentals still the same.
This just came through. Don’t have access to this and not sure the implications?
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/streetwise/robert-friedland-backed-cobalt-company-considering-canadian-listing-sources/article36585551/?ref=https://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile
Long $CLQ
SS think said I subscribe to a premium service. I did a search on the title and came up with another link;
https://epeak.info/2017/10/14/robert-friedland-backed-cobalt-company-considering-canadian-listing-sources/
long $CLTEQ
Weeks ago Rick Rule said next year Cleanteq would be listed in North America and that it would be a household name.
So far, so good.
Implications: more traders, more exposure, more coverage, higher market cap and stock price.
A must listen for all cleanteq investors. This guy Kaiser is like a professor giving a lecture on clean teq as an investment, I was stunned at the specificity of the information. He explains stuff you’ll never hear anywhere else. Start the video at 12:50. He confirms a lot of what I have been opining on, basically think cobalt, and put your scandium thoughts much further in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1607&v=0pKMN24Ts3Y
Renby,thanks for the interesting audio. Could an autoclave be modified or dedicated as a ‘pre-processor’ for the scandium, while the 2nd be dedicated to the cobalt and nickel? (I have absolutely no background or experience in chemistry.)
god its nice to listen to somebody who truly knows what he is talking about, and can spit it out, even if he sounds like a computer head.
deanbob, I think the answer is yes. One autoclave could be used to process ore from the cobalt zone, and the other for the scandium zone.
However, I’m not sure why they wouldn’t use both of them to process the high cobalt ore. I suppose it depends on market conditions when it comes time to actually scoop the ore into the autoclaves. Cobalt is on a bit of a timer, its peak of demand may very well coincide with when we are ready with production. But how long it lasts is unknown. The race for alternatives to cobalt is already in full swing. If cobalt is at $25 or more when we already to process, it would seem logical to focus all production on the high grade cobalt piles.
Great find Renby! A fascinating interview and I agree with you that cobalt is on a timer. On the one hand, the demand for cobalt looks set to increase as EV battery production increases, but on the other, because of its price, cobalt is being “thrifted”. Its presence relative to nickel in the cathodes is being progressively reduced, as evidenced by the battery cathode formulations recently put out for tender by VW.
Kaiser made it sound like the problem was not in the autoclaves, it is in the Clean-iX resin extraction circuits. He said that the smaller amounts of scandium had to be taken out first before they can get the cobalt and the nickel. As a result, Kaiser expressed doubt that they will even bother to recover the scandium in the first ores processed since it recovering it will create a bottleneck in the cobalt and nickel recoveries.
Kaiser also said that cobalt and scandium appear in inverse ratios in the ore. Thus if they are going after high cobalt, the ores selected will have high cobalt and low scandium grades.
I have no reason to doubt Kaiser; but Friedland may have something up his sleeve on the bottleneck problem. Cleanteq’s
recent news release supports his assertion on ore grade selection.
I think what is being talked here “it is in the Clean-iX resin extraction circuits. He said that the smaller amounts of scandium had to be taken out first before they can get the cobalt and the nickel. ” is a valence problem (from what I remember of chemistry 101) the ability to give and take electrons.
Off top of my head I think Kaiser has lots of shares of the pure Sc company…
Scandium International
http://www.scandiummining.com/s/Home.asp
Summary from their website.
“Scandium International Mining Corp. (SCY) owns an 80% interest in the Nyngan Scandium Project, located in New South Wales, Australia, approximately 500 kilometers northwest of Sydney.
Scandium International has completed all required governmental approvals with the objective of commencing mine construction in 2017 (subject to financing) and scandium production in 2019. The Company also owns an 80% interest in the Honeybugle Scandium property, an exploration property adjacent to the Nyngan Scandium Project in NSW, Australia.”
I wonder if they have an autoclave, or two?
$SCY $SCYYF Scandium International…stock price about 27 cents, market cap $80 mil…If they have autoclaves there is no evidence of it on the website. Maybe they don’t need them for scandium production. The capex for the flagship scandium project is only $87 million and the payback and IRR look good, too.
I like a lot about the deposit and location. They even have an offtake agreement, though it is to a strategic partner to develop product. And their website has a lot of good info on scandium.
What concerns me is the financials. They had only 600K in cash at the end of 2016, and their annual payroll is not much smaller than that.
How are they going to proceed ? How and from whom will they get capital ? Financing is a target objective; they do not have it yet, and we do not know their prospects or connections.
They say they are targeting 2017 for production, and the year is almost over. They say they “are developing” the world’s first scandium-only mine. They do not say “We are building”, or “We are constructing”.
They have permits and resources and reports and agreements, all very good and I am not discounting them. And many of the companies we discuss have to raise money. But we still must ask, where will the money come from, and when will we hear about it ?
No opinion, no position
HN….. They say they would like to commence mine construction this year ( subject to financing ) and begin scandium production in 2019. Well this year is nearly over and I have not found an update yet on their progress. As for scandium extraction from ore containing it, there is a patent for its extraction as a dissolved salt with acid under heat and pressure in an autoclave.
https://www.google.com/patents/EP0775753A1?cl=en
The possibility was raised in the video that RF may view Scandium International as a potential takeover target down the road.
$SCY…”They say they would like to commence mine construction this year ( subject to financing ) and begin scandium production in 2019.”
…Yeah. And I would like to commence moving into a a new 8,000 square foot house on a ten acre estate down the road from me this year (subject to financing), and a new career as a retired yoga instructor in a new studio on the estate,
beginning in 2019.
I don’t mean to be snide, they have a chance to accomplish their objectives But note there is no finance deal, upon which all else depends.
Autoclaves…one thing occurs to me about the autoclaves.
Syerston is being constructed using Clean-iX as the primary extraction method; it is as much a demonstration plant for Cleanteq as it is a cobalt/nickel/scandium mine.
The other potential producers may use extraction techniques that do not require such big autoclaves, or even methods that do not require autoclaves at all.
Let me be the first to say, “I do not know the answer.”
rubberworm…as an investment I am wary of SCY as a going concern.
But as a takeover target, it is gaining attraction.
Kaiser suggests that they have done a lot of development and heavy lifting in getting scandium of the ground, and they are located in NSW not very far from Syerston. He mentions that SCY could be attracive to Cleanteq.
The SCY market cap is only $80 million. This is not a lot of money for Friedland. The thought occurs, Friedland could pick up both Platina and SCY for less than $100 million. He wouldn’t even need much cash to do it,
he could do a deal with Cleanteq stock. As a shareholder, I would jump at the chance to take a 15% dilution if we could get Platina and SCY for it.
The two acquisitions would not require capex, because Syerston is being built; and Cleanateq would be in a commanding market position for both scandium and cobalt.
I think RF plans to be the largest seller of Sc in the world. No real market for Sc yet. ClenTeq’s lowest prices around will get large end users to start using Sc large scale. CleanTeQ will get the good offtakes regarding SC. That is my thinking.
rubberworm…so far Friedland’s actions do nothing to invalidate your hypothesis.
The stated capacity of Syerston is 7 to 12 times the current annual world consumption of scandium.
Thanks, Renby.
Very interesting to get another perspective. Also SCY mentioned by Kaiser as a potential takeover target already has a takeoff agreement for scandium, although it is to a strategic partner who develops applications.
Kaiser and magnesium batteries…two recent posts have been very beneficial in highlighting potential problems and giving me some financial restraint on Cleanteq.
The call-out of a possible advance in magnesium batteries,
which could eventually reduce cobalt demand, and Kaiser’s highlight of potential production issues at Syerston are the first “devil’s advocate”arguments that make me consider that things could not go well for Syerston. It has also been mentioned that maybe peace and stability could break out in the DRC, and the DRC might export MORE cobalt than previously. Unlikely, but a possibility that I hadn’t considered.
The idea here is not to proclaim we are right or wrong, but get all viewpoints so we can make a reasoned decision.
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These potential problems must be kept in mind. But in the current circumstances, they are not sufficient to make me consider a reduction in my position; they are just things I will keep an eye out for.
The reason is that the potential negatives are from the point of view that Cleanteq is a cobalt miner. But we know Cleanteq’s potential is not solely as a cobalt miner.
Cleanteq has potential in three metals, and we now know they are capable of changing their emphasis depending on the relative values of the
three. The recent shift in emphasis from scandium to cobalt is an example of this.
More importantly, Cleanteq has huge potentials in water recovery and mineral extraction. It is as much a play in techno-mining, water, and pollution control, as it is a cobalt or scandium or nickel prospect.
This is the key point that most analysts and investors will continue to miss, at least for the near future.
Long Cleanteq. Conviction pick, it is my largest position.
This is kind of related to the above, couple of interesting visuals.
https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-07-06/elon-musk-won-t-save-big-mining#footnote-1499253653938-ref
The best outcome to remove insecurity regarding the future of cobalt would be binding off-take commitments. Thats what I am looking for in the next 15 months. There should be plenty of lithium ion battery makers looking to lock in their cobalt supply from a reliable, ethical source.
Agree about the offtake agreements. Remember CLQ already has one for 20% of production for 5 years.
My opinion is that you won’t have to wait for the full 15 months for more; we’ll see.
Information: LME is starting a cobalt futures market. Good sign and now we will have more visible price signals,…assuming the thing isn’t manipulated or rigged,…which unfortunately we cannot assume…
$SCY $CLTEQ “The recent shift in emphasis from scandium to cobalt is an example of this.” said HN
What COULD be happening is that Cleanteq mines the cobalt, takes an offtake agreement with SCY and makes millions off both the materials.
Regarding SCY’s location and resources in-ground, why wouldn’t SCY be a good investment akin to Seabridge (SA) ?
$SCY /$SCYYF Scandium Intl. Mining
$SA Seabridge Gold
Edski, they are similar in some ways, in that they are developers with big in-ground assets . And both claim to be fully permitted and ready to go.
But personally I would not be comfortable with a position in SCY that is anything close to what I have in Seabridge Gold.
The reasons are several. First, I am more comfortable with gold than I am with scandium. Both have their risks and opportunities; but there is a world market for gold…yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Scandium is maybe maybe tomorrow, maybe five years from now. Or ten years from now.
Second, Rudi Fronk has publicly declared the endgame for Seabridge. It is shareholder friendly. He has demonstrated over a long period that he will be careful about shareholder dilution. When a deal is done, it will be good for Seabridge shareholders. I do not have the same degree of assurance with SCY.
Third, Seabridge is much stronger financially. Their market cap is already over half a billion dollars and they can wait indefinitely for the right deal. They have no pressure. Seabridge can afford to be more picky in this regard than SCY can be. SCY had $600 K in cash on their last annual report and carries a market cap of $80 million.
This is pretty thin.
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Someone else may have high conviction in scandium and recognize that the leverage on SCY could be tremendous, or want to hit a multibagger home run that is realistically beyond what Seabridge might return. Such a person might want to put on a big position in SCY. It might even pay off. I can understand that thinking, but it is not my thinking; nor is it the path I intend to pursue with SCY.
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Long $SA Seabridge Gold. Conviction pick, predict it will JV or be bought out at some point.
$SCY no position; considering as a scandium or take-out speculation
Good luck with a primary scandium project. First you have to have a market. How big that market is is anyones guess. It may be that cleanteq can provide the entire world market demand for the next decade, and can make a profit on it by selling it for $750. I think they have the ability to produce something like 6X the present annual world usage of the stuff at about 550 cost. So now evaluate SCY as an investment. Scandium price is likely to go down, probably way more than the $2000, $1500, or $1250 price projections I have seen. My guess is $750 is more realistic, cause at $1500 too many companies start to compete, and the guys who produce it as a by-product squeeze out the guys who do it as a primary, or make it impossible for them to make any money with it. The only reason I own Platina is because I think their cobalt is worth many times their market cap, and soon the market will figure that out.
If in the next year, cleanteq locked in off-take commitments for the majority of their nickel and cobalt [their stated goal], not just what would it do for its stock price, but what would it do for ardea stock price, and platina stock price if they showed they were a syerston twin. I think australian cobalt will do very well in the next 3-6 years, with the biggest demand by far coming out of china. But there may be a very specific time to cash it in, because it could be a bubble that pops.
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20160830/pdf/439rkc9x7nlrp9.pdf
With costs for Sc 444US/per kg I think CleanTeQ could be just going down to $750…and for the next ten years take it all.
rubberworm, I agree in spades, because Cleanteq’s incremental cost on producing scandium is going to be a lot less than they say. I think the incremental cost for them on scandium will be closer to ZERO than to $444 per kilo, I don’t care what their report says.
They did the DFS based on nickel and cobalt.
They discount the scandium income to ZERO in their DFS. ZERO.
On the cost side, there is NO incremental mining operation costs for the scandium, because the are going after the nickel and cobalt, which are bearing the costs on the books.
There will be some resin and processing costs because they will have another Clean iX scandium circuit, but that’s about it.
They are lowballing scandium for their reports because they know the future is speculative on scandium, and that relying on it has no appeal to analysts, investors and bankers.
This is why I believe Cleanteq will be in a position to set whatever prices on scandium they want to. I think they will not be reckless, but they can set prices to optimally stimulate demand and increase their production without destroying their pro-formas and profit projections.
Anything they get on the sales side is a plus, the costs are already figured into the nickel and cobalt.
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The world wide consumption on scandium is 15 or 20 tons, pick your number. Cleanteq has published their capacity at 170 tons. They can decide how much to produce as they go along because they are producing nickel and coblat from the ore anyway. They can scale up scandium production as the demand increases.
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Renby was correct, I think, about saying that a primary scandium miner is going to have a tough time of it. Especially in southeastern Australia.
Besides there being virtually no scandium market yet, Cleanteq is going to make any sales forecasts on scandium prices totally worthless. Even worse, they can make the prices so that it is guaranteed that a new factory will lose money.
Therefore the only other scandium developers that might get my interest would have to be bargain- valued strictly on the deposit, such as Platina. SCY is interesting, provided the price of the company is a bargain with respect to the inherent value of the minerals in the ground. To me, plans for a factory or a mine in eastern Australia that are not named Syerston are not to be given credibility.
And there you have it. As stated in a link somewhere above, the prices need to come down to create a demand for scandium and have a reliable source for future orders.
Seems like all the needed elements, (sorry….) are in line for creating such measures.
long $scy, $cteqf
Lots of ways for Cleanteq to go.
Edski, I have seen a number of examples where I think companies promote themselves a a prospect in mineral X,
which is “hot”, when I think they are really a better play for mineral Z, which is out of favor or not as easy to raise money for as mineral X.
In the case of Syerston, Cleanteq can easily make credible changes to what they emphasize to investors as a good reason for investing in them. They just did this with cobalt.
They could change again tomorrow and emphasize scandium, if they wanted to.
Like those polymetallic deposits. There aren’t too many of them.
Points taken, all. I just figure that a small position in SCY could reap big benefits later on down the road, especially if I am right regarding a possible offtake agreement.
Cheers and good hunting to all of us.
Good luck on SCY. IMO It is a speculation similar to Platina. But Cleanteq is the main event. It is an investment.
If you see an article that lists SCY and Platina as being in the same category as Cleanteq, because they are all scandium plays, you know the author does not understand Cleanteq.
Keep kaisers comments in perspective – the guy clearly jumped on he wrong horse
Keep kaisers comments in perspective – the guy clearly jumped on the wrong horse
The guy doing the Kaiser interview said something
like this…. CleanTeq put out a new resourse update and the scandium disappeared. BS The update said….Scandium Mineral Resource Estimate
The scandium Mineral Resource for the Project has increased significantly to 45.7 Mt
@ 420 ppm Sc for 19,222 tonnes of contained metal using a 300ppm cut-off. Of this
total resource, 27% is in the Measured and Indicated categories.
This compares to the previously reported scandium Mineral Resource (17 March 2015)
of 28.2 Mt @ 419 ppm Sc for 11,819 contained metal tonnes, using a 300 ppm Sc cutoff
(i.e. an increase in contained scandium metal of 63%).
Kaiser and this guy are trolls at best.
rubberworm…you could be right about Kaiser, but I took his interview to be pretty fair-and-square. It is possible he has an axe to grind or a position in SCY to protect, but I think you are being a little tough on the guy.
I took Kaiser to mean only that the report had a different emphasis. I may be naive but I will look at the reports again.
These reports can change tenor depending on what cut-off grades are selected. Cleanteq originally had more emphasis on scandium but decided to put more
attention on the cobalt and nickel aspects, not because they are dishonest or that the geology has changed, but because that emphasis will carry more weight with investors because the cobalt market is hot and the nickel market is huge. They are not being dishonest by doing this, they are being realistic.
It is interesting that in one of the charts in the Cleanteq report, they graphed the size versus grade of competitive deposits. For their own deposit, they
put in THREE different plot points. What they are saying is, “Look, it depends on what cut-off you want to use, but any way you slice it we have a big deposit.”
As investors we look for hard-and-fast, “positive” answers. But mostly, the facts are not that clear and the answers are conditional. Miners are trying to get investment capital, and analysts and newsletter writers and stockbrokers are trying to sell us something or other. We just have to separate the wheat from the chaff as best we can.
rubberworm, you bring up a point. kaiser said he thought cleanteq would not bother getting the scandium out of their high grade cobalt ore, and that changed the story just a wee bit for me. however their is nothing in the news release that backs up that premise, and in fact, the news release says this: “The DFS will incorporate scandium oxide by-product recovery from the cobalt-nickel circuit with a nameplate capacity of 80 tonnes per annum Sc2O3. So to me, that contradicts what he said, I’m curious to see the answer on that, getting 80 tonnes or not makes a material difference.”
Here is Kaiser back in 2015 saying that Scandium will be producing in 2017 and and praising this 2 bit MOU for 7500TPA to what looks like just some middle men to me. And Kaiser was bashing CleanTeQ then. Article ends saying JK has shares. Don’t think Kaiser will make his deadline of 2017 production.
https://secure.kaiserresearch.com/s4/Trackers.asp?ReportID=702166&_Type=Trackers&_Title=SVH-Tracker-Scandium-International-scores-scandium-oxide-offtake-agreement
They appear to be running well behind schedule rubberworm and may not have even begun mine construction yet, perhaps because of financial limitations.
The website had said “Construction in 2017” but that obviously hasn’t happened yet; and for reasons explained, I doubt that it will. Especially since they have now put 2019 as the date. They do not have the money lined up.
rubberworm…not sure but it looks to me that the SCY take-off is to a strategic partner who is going to work on developing scan/alu applications for the end customers. So the take-off is basically for product development. It is not like Airbus will be making parts from the take-off scandium.
This is my impression.
Kaiser sounds knowledgeable but sometimes his reasoning and picks seem pretty obscure. Guys I never heard of, for reasons I hadn’t thought of. Not saying his picks are not good, or that he is not an astute guy.
Everybody makes mistakes. I sure make my share. One of the top mining consultants in the world declared that PVG had no economic gold at Brucejack. But somehow PVG managed to pour 82,000 ounces last quarter.
And I don’t have a lot of capital to fund a lot of new picks anyway.
Who am I to say ?
I like Kaiser, always listen to his comments, especially if it mentions a stock I hold or considering to. Seems knowledgeable imo. Definitely someone with experience in the game.
This is a MOU….
“A memorandum of understanding (MOU or MoU) is a formal agreement between two or more parties. Companies and organizations can use MOUs to establish official partnerships. MOUs are not legally binding but they carry a degree of seriousness and mutual respect, stronger than a gentlemen’s agreement.”
An offtake that is worth nothing. IMHO.
rubberworm, IMO you are correct in that the off-take agreement doesn’t really mean very much.
It is to a strategic partner of SCY; there is no guarantee that they will actually buy anything
(how can they, with no cash and no SCY production),
and there is no assurance that the partner can actually generate sales volume for SCY.
There is no production at SCY that one can count on.
But the word “offtake” sure looks good on the website !