Scandium, Cobalt, and Water Purification: CleanTeQ HoldingsA Microcap Teaser Solution In Advance !!
(Australian stock exchange CLQ, OTC pinks CTEQF).
CleanTeQ is sure to be the answer to future teasers you will be reading about from resource gurus, To save you all the trouble of solving them, I decided to write this article.
My portfolio was grotesquely overweight in gold and silver positions, and in moments of anxiety I thought it would be a good idea to diversify and take a few positions in something other than gold mines, royalty companies, Mongolian exploration companies, and small-cap copper miners with major operations in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Thus I made a small speculation in CleanTeQ, solely on the basis that mining titan Robert Friedland was the Chairman, and CleanTeQ was the only resource company I could find that seemed to be in a position to mine scandium, a very rare metal that sells for a couple of thousand dollars a kilo.
My due diligence was so slight that I was embarrassed to emphasize my position to the readers at Stock Gumshoe. We are supposed to study these things a little more than I did for CleanTeQ. And after entering at 50 cents, the stock promptly dropped to 35 cents or so, making me glad that I did not look foolish by publicizing my position.
As the weeks went by, I started to find more information on the company that I should have found out beforehand. This was partly accidental, partly from other Gumshoe readers, and partly from new announcements and company news that occurred after I took a position. But the findings were all very positive, and because the company is so interesting I thought it warranted its own thread apart from the hard asset thread which I moderate.
I have a full long position and high hopes. And I thank Secretsquirrel, Griffin, Larry McKenna, and several others who helped fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle.
Below are my findings, opinions, and summary on CleanTeQ Holdings:
BUSINESS MODEL CleanTeQ is a hybrid company based with three bases: scandium mining and production, cobalt mining and production, and water purification. This seems like an odd combination, but as you will see, it is not. It is a stroke of genius. And I will explain why we should care about scandium and cobalt.
(1) The company is starting production of the Syerston mine, the world’s only scandium mine;
(2) The company will also produce significant amounts of cobalt as a co-product to the scandium;
(3) The company has a large-scale water purification technology, which will target municipalities,
Industrial operations with waste water problems, and mines, which also have water problems
PROSPECTS FOR THE THREE SEGMENTS
(1) Scandium is a very rare metal that usually occurs in only small amounts that are not economical to mine. It is mostly available as a by-product and the market is opaque, usually between private parties. Scandium has very beneficial applications in aerospace, aviation, and technology, but has not been widely applied because there is not a sufficiently reliable supply of it.
(2) Cobalt is essential in many batteries. Lithium gets all the investment press, but a majority of the battery formulations need cobalt, which is rare compared to lithium. Cobalt has a similar supply situation as scandium, it is mostly a by-product and is not commonly a prime mining target in and of itself. But demand for the electric energy market is growing rapidly and cobalt demand is growing and will continue to grow accordingly. Supply chains on cobalt are iffy.
(3) Water purification is a pressing need throughout the world. Cities with lots of people, industrialized places with lots of factories, or mines with waste water, all have a real and pressing need for large scale water purification. I think most people can accept this premise of widespread demand without a lot of documentation.
HOW DO THESE SEGMENTS RELATE TO EACH OTHER ? I cannot get too technical about the water purification technology, but I will try to explain what I understand, and how it relates to the scandium and cobalt operations. They call it Continuous Flow Ionization. Ionization is not a proprietary technology per se, but CleanTeQ has developed a way to implement ionization in a continuous feed, automated loop that improves volume, improves economics, is reasonably priced for installation, and can be custom-modified to specific waste problems. It can be used in conjunction with other filtration techniques. Further, it can be modified TO EXTRACT CERTAIN SUBSTANCES from the feed waste water. This is done by modifying the resins that are used in the ionization process.
Now it so happens that CleanTeQ has developed resins that can extract scandium and cobalt from waste water. So they potentially will have commercial sources of rare metals from the by-product waste of their water purification process !
HOW CLOSE IS THE WATER THING TO REALLY HAPPENING ? It is happening. CleanTeQ has signed a memorandum of understanding with a major Chinese municipality to implement their technology. There is a joint venture, 55% Chinese/45% CleanTeQ. Once the first one is up and working, China has a mind-boggling potential for water purification. For their teeming urban centers and for their mining and industrial locations, shall we say the potential is very large ?
CleanTeQ has 100% of rest of the world. CleanTeQ is closed-mouthed about other commercial sources, but they let on that they have been in contact with the likes of GE, Dow, and other big hitters. They state a pipeline target of $100 million by 2020; I predict they will do much better.
HOW CLOSE IS THE COBALT THING TO REALLY HAPPENING ? Very close. Battery useage is soaring and is the strategic target of many governments, corporations, and environmental groups. Batteries need cobalt.
HOW CLOSE IS THE SCANDIUM THING FROM HAPPENING ? This will take a while because the applications are high tech, with long lead times, and there is only one scandium mine in the world (CleanTeQ’s newly commissioned Syerston mine). CleanTeQ intends to develop the scandium market by being a reliable source of supply, and by driving the price down.
CleanTeQ will have viable margins with scandium prices up to half of current prices.
To give you an idea, the Russians made a few MIGs with scandium/aluminum alloys. They were faster, lighter, stronger. An addition of 0.5% scandium to aviation aluminum strengthens the frame, removes the need for riveting, reduces weight, and makes repairs easier. . The Russians dropped it because of costs; and Boeing and Airbus will not use it without a reliable source of supply. But there is about to be a reliable source of supply: CleanTeQ.
WHAT ABOUT IP PROTECTION ? I believe the IP and know-how moat is sufficient. CleanTeQ holds a perpetual license from a high-level Russian research organization that provided some of the foundation technology. I am not a patent lawyer and a lot of the know-how will be proprietary, not patented. CleanTeQ has been at this for over ten years, I think the barriers to entry are sufficient.
MANAGEMENT Totally a plus. Robert Friedland is the Co-Chairman and CEO, he has 20% of the company, great credibility and clout with the Chinese, and an unbelievable track record in mining. Sam Reggall is the other co-chairman. I know little about him, other than from my observations of him on an Australian investment show that aired last week. He was impressive.
MONEY AND FINANCES I don’t think there is anything at all to worry about. Friedland must be worth billions, the Chinese are in, and the concept has enormous potential.
Sources: as I mentioned, information is scant. My sources were the CleanTeQ website, presentations and and interviews with Friedland and Reggall, and the sketchy information on the brokerage sites. Nothing you cannot find on your own.
Long CleanTeQ
This is a discussion topic or guest posting submitted by a Stock Gumshoe reader. The content has not been edited or reviewed by Stock Gumshoe, and any opinions expressed are those of the author alone.
CLQ @ $1.31 AUSD in early trading. After the old three-legged Fibonacci correction, maybe we are headed back up.
I meant 3-part Elliott Wave correction
Monday ~13:27 http://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/equityPrices.do?by=asxCodes&asxCodes=auz+clq+euc+jrv+ncz+pgm+mei
$CLQ at $1.31 AUSD in early trading down under
$CLQ
They were on steroids again: 13,6% gain! Closing at 1.42AUD!
Cleanteq is in the market on metal extraction … NOW
https://www.multotec.com/product/solid-liquid-separation/clean-ix-for-metals-recovery
This link is to the Multotec website. Multotec is the distributor who is Cleanteq’s partner in Africa.
They are selling gold, uranium, and rare earth recovery installations, as well as water purification installs, RIGHT NOW. Don’t be surprised at a news release on a gold or uranium recovery contract, by Christmas.
Gold is high and uranium is low.
Gold is scarce and there is an overhang in uranium.
But Cleanteq said they are negotiating with one of each and expect at least one of them to conclude a deal. More likely to be a gold mine IMO.
CLQ’s multi-limbed approach- cobalt miner, ‘techno miner’ and water purifier, should underpin this spectacular re-rating now under way. AUD 1.50 may be a resistance level but I would not be surprised by AUD 2 by the end of the year. I want to hear more about the water purification side; there may be a limit to the upside here with competition from graphene filtration, recently proved by the University of Manchester.
No they have that too
Hi Shavian. don’t wait to “hear about” Cleanteq’s water processes. There is a complete Cleanteq Water website that will give you plenty of information.
Water purification and mine waste recovery are not theoretical endeavors at Cleanteq.
Cleanteq Water was launched as a going enterprise this year; the same week they announced the Pengxin partnership, the water website went live, complete with worldwide offices and contacts. They are open for business.
Their processes are being featured on the Multotec website and they are drumming up business in Africa. They have binding contracts with serious players in China.
They are way past proving their technology in lab and university settings, they are doing business and getting contracts.
Graphene may be a good technology for certain applications. But to my knowledge, it is not available NOW. And when it becomes available, I will bet you my dollars against your dimes, that Cleanteq will be able to supplement their installations with that technology in the appropriate and cost-effective ways.
So I am not at all worried that graphene techniques will limit Cleanteq in any meaningful way. Out there in the real world, graphene has to be tested and a myriad of applications need to be developed. Someone credible has to offer it, and it needs to be at prices that are competitive
and cost efficiient. This could happen, but it is years away.
Suppose a future graphene application is somewhat better than Cleanteq’s methods. It might be 10% better for twice the price. No way to know. But Cleanteq may prevail with a slightly inferior technology. This happens all the time, like it did with BETA and VHS in video. And graphene is not available NOW.
Long Cleanteq.
$CLTEQ, has graphene covered with their partner Ionic Industries. Though Ionic is more involved with super capacitors they also are working with graphene membranes. IIRC There seems to be some movement in the processing of or and brine to using membranes so I think this partnership looks good for the future.
CLTEQ long
Thanks, Griffin. Extra eyes and ears are helpful to everyone.
Your interest in Ionic has provided benefit for everyone even if we are not long in it.
Thanks Hn. GReat blogging, as ever!
Raised some cash, mostly from other sectors.
There’s a lot of tasty dishes on the menu.
Want to expand my positions in ERDCF and CTEQF;, which I consider very high probabilities for continued appreciation; but I am looking at a lot of new positions.
EUC, CGOOF, GVXXF, SCY, UURAF…and for thrills GGIFF and MTLFF.
Just to keep this in context, the money I am dealing with is “around the edges”.
My core positions are still as they were, I have large positions in CTEQF, SAND, PVG, IVPAF, SA, ERDCF, MAG.
Reconsidering uranium, just because it is cheap right now, and the EV movement will add a lot of demand for conventional power to charge everybody up.
However I am inclined to go with very high leveraged companies because we may have to wait a long time, and I do not want to tie up a lot of capital while I wait for the turnaround.
Take a look at $FCUUF HN, Chinese have invested to 19% if I remember correctly. Fission Uranium has a solid team of explorers, they know what to do and when to do it. I held it for over two years, sold and am considering buying again. This deposit is at Patterson Lake South in the Athabasca Basin and is well defined at its core and expanding, currently 110 mil lbs indicated and close to that much inferred. $FCUUF is just south of NexGen, another significant resource, and will be open pit that has only 55 meters of cover to get through. To date the largest resource is under 15 meters of water, they have a solid plan to reach it open pit. I held this one for a couple of years hoping for a JV but $DNN was the only option and I would not put any of my money in $DNN again. Take a look at Azincourt Energy $AZURF (formally Azincourt Uranium). $AZURF has recently expanded into lithium, cobalt, nickel, manganese, anf graphite (not sure about the graphite). Azincourt is connected to Fission 3.0 & Skyharbour Resources (I do not know much about Skyharbour) and has holdings with Mancusi Yellowcake in Peru. Azincourt looked like it was dying on the vine but has more recently demonstrated a want and ability to grow IMO. You would have to be long but entry is dirt cheap. Azincourt consolidated about a year ago, maybe longer. I could not unload it last year so have just been sitting on it in the red. I would agree the glut in U will last for a while longer, needs to hit $55/lb to get things moving and that is not likely to happen for a while. Best.
Thanks, Dougj. Fission is one of the uranium possibilities I would consider. There are a few that I have looked at,but I have not kept up-to-date on the sector. I already have a small left-over position of UEC,
will check fission and a few others before making another pick.
I have to look at Goviex, there is a Friedland connection; and I have a tiny position in Kivalliq, a Nunavit nano-cap. The Kivalliq position should either be eliminated or built up.
Keep in mind Ross McElroy is a top shelf geologist, he knows where to drill for max results. He moved west of the lake, drilled, and hit at every turn. Now Fission or whomever can pit on dry land to build a causeway (or whatever it is called) so the lake can be drained in a future phase to mine there. I believe these guys have identified more lbs than are posted, I am guessing in the 150-200 mil lb range total when it is all said and done. The current glut of refined U will slowly wind down. I do not think there is much there besides U and a nominal amount of other metals. Of course I could be mistaken. My biggest problem with Fission besides time was Randahwa’s push to vote yes re the $DNN proposal, it was piss-poor at best. That vote went down soundly by shareholders, it was greater than 2-1 against. He did managed to gain support from the Chinese Nuclear Agency, I think that was a smart move as they appear to be on a fast track to develop nuclear in China and need a reliable supplier. No Chinese concern can own assets in Canada but they took as large a piece as they could if I remember correctly. The Fission 3.0 spin off was a good move and now Azincourt plays a role in that one. Of course the greatest obstacle to growth is the price of U or Fission would be moving at an accelerated pace IMO. That being said their assets have been identified and certified to a point that movement will be quick when it happens. Fission has cash, I am certain it also has access to cash if it needs more at favorable terms. I am not pushing this enterprise, I currently own no shares, just sayin. If I get back into the U sector this is the one I will buy intending to recover what I left on the table. Price/ lb is still along way from where it needs to be. I know more about Fission but think these topics are important to know while you are looking. Best.
HOME COOKIN’….I started to think carefully about how to utilize the cash I have available. Your mind jumps all over the place, there are lots of good opportunities.
But so far I am gravitating towards existing positions and picks that I have introduced.
At least I am liking my own recipes, whether the guests like them is another question. Pass the Cleanteq, please. Sorry if I am boring you. Would anyone care for more Cleanteq ?
**
The first move I made was to add weight to Cleanteq. As you know, I am already heavily invested there. But nothing has happened to erode my confidence, and I feel big increases have a very high degree of certainty.
Other tickers may ultimately provide a higher return from where they are now; but it is the degree of confidence in the end result at Cleanteq, and the relatively short time frames, that led me to add to my position.
If I do not make a lot of money in Cleanteq, it will not be because I didn’t put on a big enough position. And I would never have an end to self-recrimination if I spent a year on this blog extolling its virtues, and then failed to profit handsomely when it performed to my hopes.
Second, I decided that I would be crazy not to increase my position in Erdene.
I just got done with a lot of research on it and have convinced myself that it will see a major catalytic event within the next 8 months. So I added substantially to my position at 58 cents by selling off a small portion of my Sandstorm Gold position.
I like CGOOF as a new position, but my portfolio is already overweight in gold.
**
The Erdene and Cleanteq additions took about half of my new capital
The reminder needs to be allocated. I am thinking along these lines:
GOLD AND SILVER: gotta be restrained. I’m already overweight.
More COBALT: EUC, ARRRF, SCY should be considered. I think one more position may be justifiable in the current circumstances. And I already have a lot of “Position A.”
More COPPER,ZINC, PGM: That would mean more IVPAF, natch. My other copper and zinc plays are very speculative. I want to be sure of the deposit, and Ivan fills the bill.
More NICKEL: I’m loaded with Cleanteq, and my other nickel plays are very prospective. I went bigger on Commander last week. This brings up GGIFF and MTLFF…speculation city. Conflicted about it without more facts.
TECHNO-MINERS I feel the need for something other than Cleanteq. Don’t know enough yet about Ucore and Niocorp, or anyone else. But I think the area is timely.
URANIUM: considering.
NEW MATERIALS: What ? Manganese ? Iron ore ? Aluminum ?
**
I admit I have a narrow focus. This is probably a result of my character, attention span, and lack of ability to “multi-task.”
I am reminded of Clint Eastwood, in the “Dirty Harry” movie series. I love those movies. In the film Magnum Force, the climax comes after Harry (Dirty Harry) Callahan has demolished the accomplices and underlings of Mr. Bad Guy, but is in a seemingly hopeless and desperate position, face-to-face with the evil mastermind, who has the gun.
In a cool act of creative desperation, Harry manages to blow up Mr. Bad Guy with his own bomb. Harry stares at the flaming vehicle in which Mr. Bad Guy has been incinerated, squints, and says to himself:
“A man’s got to know his own limitations.”
How true.
New positions…thinking out loud
The perspective encouraged on this thread is long-term. But recent collective observations have highlighted a number of short-term opportunities, some with very short times to potentially catalytic news..
Considering the allocation of relatively small amounts of capital into new positions, I have decided that I can be a teensy, tiny bit more flexible in my speculations, with respect to the time frame expected to significant news. This means greater uncertainty, and risks of a nature I am usually not comfortable with. I am not a good trader.
The time-frame-to-catalyst serves well to clarify my decision-making
for this portion of my assets.
I already had previously built up Cleanteq (timeframe to catalysts: anytime) and Erdene (time frame to catalyst : 1st half 2018).
These fit my general approach, and are consistent with my prior selection
criteria.
**
For the other possibilities, I was very conflicted. They are all speculations, in different sectors and with different unknowns and risks. So I ranked the potential targets according to the length of time probable to earth-shaking (but non-geologic) catalysts. My list of opportunities and time frame-to-catalyst looks like this:
GGI/MTLFF…(nickel) very very very short. Hours or days.
EUC…(cobalt) very short. Hours or days.
CGOOF (gold) pretty short, days or weeks. Drilling is underway.
GVXXF, (or other U picks)…a long time probably. And we will see it starting to happen
TSDRF…(iron ore, diamonds)….a long time probably. And we will see it starting to happen
UURAF…who knows ?
***
This way of looking at it makes the time-to-catalyst more important than the sector or mineral target. For the amount of capital I am investing, I am OK with this even though it is a departure from what I have done
previously.
**
My plan is now set.
Because of the time frames involved, whatever I am comfortable allocating to GGI, MTLFF, and EUC will be done today, tomorrow, or the next day. The situation is pressing as far as time is concerned. As long term investments, they may or may not be great; but there is news imminent, so win or lose, better sooner than later if I am going to take a shot.
CGOOF can be done this week or next. I’ve got a lot of gold anyway. They are drilling but we already know the deposit is good.
GVXXF/uranium…this can wait. Unless uranium doubles in price suddenly, there will be nothing lost by taking my time with more DD.
No rush.
TSDRF…do not see the urgency to buy an iron ore prospect even though it has a diamond kimberlite pipe that come with it.
**
Thanks to Tree Rat Enigma, Billvile, Renby, Griffin, rubberworm and everyone else who has made constructive and well-intentioned contributions. Hope to make a couple bucks, and I hope you do too.
**
I have a big bowl of Cleanteq. Would you like another helping ?
I know, we had it for breakfast this morning and dinner yesterday and the day before. Gets boring. But it tastes good, doesn’t it ? And it’s good for you, too.
Now we have a big dessert tray. Looks yummy. But don’t overeat. You might get indigestion. Too much sugar is bad for you. You get a rush, but then you don’t feel so good after.
$CLTEQ – Clean TeQ Holdings Enhances cobalt leverage
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3z7moa1ck0q3v12/Macquarie%20Research%20-%20Clean%20TeQ%20-%20Enhances%20Cobalt%20Leverage.pdf?dl=0
This research paper was sent out by Clean TEQ this morning as a attachment I’ve uploaded it to dropbox. It is a rehash of the update from CLQ with all the bells and whistles. This is my first attempt at using dropbox.
CLTEQ long
Hi Griffin, I checked the October 9th release. I don’t know how anyone could interpret their data as being weak on cobalt.
They are starting to show their claws when it comes to mine management.
They will be able to completely manage production to take advantage of
price moves in the three commodities; while in one of them (scandium) they will be essentially in a boss position to dictate production and price.
They will be able to do this from two related technical advances. First is the Clean iX extraction technology. But of equal importance is their block and grade control.
They will select blocks to be mined based on the mix and price of the commodities they want.
The old “cut-off grade” methodology is going to be dramatically impacted.
I’m not seeing the whole picture yet, but it is starting to look to me that the old methods of deciding what ore is economical are about to wind up in the dust bin.
$FYI – Cruz and Spearm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/erxxq6tb4ukzqwv/cruz%20and%20spearm?dl=0
The linked file is a text file created from C&P of projects on their website. I’ve hesitated to post this because in researching these 2 companies I couldn’t find anything to really recommend them on. Jim Nelson seems to be the head of both companies. Their property is property that is trending, Cobalt, Lithium, Gold, Vanadium, and Uranium. The file is out of date now because they are still adding property. Perhaps some sees something here I don’t.
HN EUC asx dropped to 19c on no fundamental change – profit taking, stop losses from traders – getting like you with CLQ, topped up marginally, hoping – fingers crossed that Xmas has arrived early.
Saying that, one should never disrespect the market, still awaiting results from Lab re dump waste grades.
As always DYOR.
EUC…no position yet, but yes I noticed the price drop.
I would feel a lot better going in here than at 27 or 28 cents. I would be cursing a blue streak if I had gone in before, then had this drop.
I like the grades and think they will be superior to most.
I’ve also noticed a lot of these stocks take a little dip before blasting off. May do something this week.
This is worth doing a translation …. http://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Droht-VW-der-Elektro-Schock-article20086209.html
Aach, mein gott. Wunderbar !
Ich muss schnell das EUC und das CLQ haben.
Das cobalt produktion ist nicht genug !!
***
This is terrible. Poor Daimler, VW, and Ford. I guess they will have to change their plans for the next six years. Or pay more for the cobalt they need. That would be awful.
EUC lookin’ good. Even if it was down to 19 cents today.
Cleanteq lookin’ better than ever. This micro-cap Australian pipsqueak has got the big powerful metal benders in a corner.
Das ist furchtbar, recht! Gehen Einkaufen!!
Jawohl !!
Long EUC, half position 19.5 cents AUSD
Thanks, Williamstown.
Rubberworm’s link shoved me over the edge.
Renby’s scenario of wild stampede in Australia gains plausibility.
**
VW solicited bids on cobalt and nobody came.
They had to extend the tender period.
How frustrating.
Chief it’s great to have you on board, I believe they’re currently making everything safe before advancing.
Smedley’s top https://twitter.com/YVR_Trader/status/920464942616027136
sogiam’s autonomy underlying zenith
EUC is a hop, skip and a jump from Stuttgart and Munich.
“The European supplier for European cobalt.”
Friedland does not have a monopoly on advance planning.
Ever see that Japanese woodblock print of the cresting blue wave ? Who was it, Hokusai ?
I am thinking of getting a print of it for my office. The Blue Wave is gaining momentum.
Thank you for your contribution and your picks.
Rubberworm…great link on the car and cobalt article.
I noticed something. Didn’t the picture of the VW logo it strike you ?
Wasn’t there an important subliminal message there ? And I have noticed the same thing with Toyota, Ford, and Daimler-Benz. Can you guess ?
Nein Nein und sag mir
They are introducing cobalt blue as accents in their main logos.
Ford was already blue. But VW and Toyota have recently introduced cobalt blue as a trim accent color in their primary logos.
Daimler has Blu Tec. Not sure if this is related. But the German bigs, Toyota, and Ford are positioned with COBALT BLUE in their main logos.
Come on now. Do you think this is a coincidence ?
Daimler’s BlueTec has to do with diesel technology, not electric.
When I checked the M-Benz website, interesting to see a full line of all-electric Smart cars and a bunch of other electric models; and a $7,500 Federal tax credit on te Smart cars.
Nice of us to subsidize the German car industry.
Daimler’s BlueTec has to do with diesel technology, not electric.
When I checked the M-Benz website, interesting to see a full line of all-electric Smart cars and a bunch of other electric models; and a $7,500 Federal tax credit on the Smart cars. Couldn’t find much detail on the Benz battery composition.
Nice of us to subsidize the German car industry.
Some logo histories show VW going blue since the 1960s. But it’s getting darker in the new ones, like in the photo in rubberworm’s link.
I had VW light blue bug…. Great car… Shh kaufe ich noch
Alles gut. Gute nacht. Stille nacht. Danke schon
Expectation of battery break through.
As I have said before preseny batteries are not really ready for distance driving. Probably need minimum of 300 watts per Kilogram energy density and the price is till too high to replace every 8 years or so. There will be advances but I see NO big breakthrough coming and the Infrastructure is far underdeveloped at present for support. IMO
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Tough progress in research dream of the super battery threatening to burst out
The development of rechargeable batteries for electric vehicles does not get off to a good start. With n-tv.de the German battery expert Dirk Uwe Sauer talks about the sobering search for more powerful batteries. And about another development that makes hope.
Electric cars belong to the future, they say. But hardly anyone wants to make a commitment. The Federal Government does not mention its original goal of one million electric cars by 2020 – on Germany’s roads, only around 19,000 electric vehicles and around six times as many hybrid vehicles are on the road at the beginning of 2015. The main obstacles to e-mobility are the still comparatively high price and the low range of the vehicles. For years, intensive research has been carried out on improving and more powerful batteries. However, the major breakthrough in this field has so far been lacking. We ask battery researcher Dirk Uwe Sauer, what are the reasons for what developments are hopeful and which prospects offer batteries of the next generation.
n-tv.de: In the state of the battery development for electric cars one has the impression: It is researched and researched, but does not seem to improve the performance of the batteries. The small and compact vehicles available today such as the BMW i3 still have ranges of only 150 to 200 kilometers. Why is that?
Dirk Uwe Sauer: There is no big leap in the development of batteries. Rather, it is an evolutionary development of existing technology. In contrast to, for example, memory chips in the electronics industry, the energy density can not be doubled every 18 months. For there are physical and chemical limits: every electron that needs to be stored needs an atom or a molecule to which it can be bound. But each atom can only take up a maximum number of electrons. This results in a maximum amount of energy for a battery. Tesla and other examples show, however, that even electric vehicles with large reach are possible. Achieving the range in vehicles is primarily not a technical problem, but an economic one.
In the meantime one could get the impression that there was already a “breakthrough” after another in the battery research !?
There are always reports in the press, of course, from the corresponding companies, which want to have achieved the great breakthrough in charging technology, the energy density or another aspect of the battery. One has to bear in mind, however, that this is often only a parameter of the battery, which has been optimized – but in general it is the multiplicity of the parameters just discussed, which a battery must meet. It is great if one makes a great advance in one place. But if the other five parameters then break in, or even one of them, it will stop no product.
First of all, about the technical aspect of battery development that you mentioned: If there is a physical upper limit on the performance of batteries – how much air is up from the current state of development?
The best battery cells for smartphones and laptops today reach a power density of about 250 watts per kilogram. The batteries used by most European vehicle manufacturers have typical energy densities of 160 to 180 watts per kilogram due to higher safety and service life requirements. By developing today’s lithium-ion technology, energy densities seem to be achievable up to about 300 watts per kilogram.
The lithium-ion batteries are thus slowly reaching their limits. What are the prospects for batteries that work with other materials?
If you want to go beyond the energy density of 300 kilowatt hours per kilogram, you have to come to the next generation of batteries. There are two major development lines. One is so-called lithium-sulfur batteries and the other would be lithium-air batteries …
… the latter have been traded longer than future miracle batteries. Meanwhile, some researchers call lithium-air batteries, however, as a “hopeless case”, as too many problems arise. What is the reason?
I also did not say that is fast (laughs). But in general for these batteries, it is true that you have a high theoretical potential in terms of energy density. One could theoretically achieve an energy density about three times higher than previous systems, ie 700 to 900 watts per kilogram. Whether this cell can actually be produced with a lifetime of a thousand cycles is questionable. An important other question: Can the safety of very powerful batteries be guaranteed? The same applies to the lithium-sulfur batteries. The larger the energy density, the greater the potential risk – for example, that a battery burns out. Therefore, the battery developers must have more in mind than energy density and price. Efficiency even at low temperatures, safety and durability are equal goals. Each parameter in itself must meet the minimum requirements. This makes the whole thing so complicated and also leads to the fact that there are no jumps in the development.
Do these next-generation batteries have the potential to make a breakthrough of electric mobility, given the high energy density, provided the safety concerns can be remedied?
In the case of the lithium-air batteries, for example, there is a further problem in addition to the life span and the safety: according to today’s opinion, one thinks that although the gravimetric – ie the weight-related – energy density can be significantly improved with it. In the automotive industry, however, the volumetric, ie volume-related, energy density is of at least similar importance. Because volume means loss of space in the vehicle. And every manufacturer struggles to provide any space in the vehicle to the user.
What does this mean for the use of lithium-air batteries?
It is estimated that the volumetric energy density of the lithium-air batteries will probably not be better than lithium-ion batteries when their development potential is exhausted. And this is also a reason why automotive manufacturers have become much more reserved. Currently, no one expects this technology to have a chance to enter the market before 2025 or 2030.
Does the lithium-lithium battery provide better prospects to become a more powerful alternative to today’s lithium-ion battery, but limited in performance?
In the case of the lithium-sulfur battery, the development is substantially closer to commercial products than is the case for lithium-air batteries. There are also manufacturers already offering lithium-sulfur batteries. However, due to the nature of the electrochemical reactions, it will be very difficult to achieve the same lifetime as with today’s lithium-ion batteries. The question of safety is also much more complex than with lithium-ion batteries. There are quite voices from science, which assume that the lithium-ion batteries with their further developments will remain the technology of choice for a very long time. But, of course, there are also the optimistic voices, which originate from a market launch of lithium-sulfur batteries in electric vehicles and a good 10 years.
Why is this taking so long?
Such a complex electro-chemical system, one can not design on the computer at the drawing board. You have to experiment a lot. Until you can really be sure that such a battery in the car also lasts ten years – that lasts. When we get a new cell technology on the table, it takes at least a year until we can make almost reliable statements about how long such a battery will live. These development cycles can not be accelerated at will.
If the attainment of higher energy densities is at least uncertain, does electromobility have any chance at all?
Yes. The main goal is not the energy density of a battery. It is the price per kilowatt hour. And progress has been dramatically faster in recent years than expected three years ago.
This is the economic aspect that you have addressed.
Correct. The prices for batteries went down massively. The big automakers are paying for the purchase of the batteries for future contracts – we do not know because this does not reveal – probably around the 170 euros per kilowatt hour of battery capacity. For comparison: three years ago a price of 200 euros per kilowatt hour was predicted for the year 2020. This means that already five years before, batteries are already significantly cheaper.
What is the reason?
Honestly, we do not know exactly. A major part is due to the market. In particular, the Korean battery cell manufacturers – and in the wake of the Japanese – have followed a very aggressive pricing policy. They have built up high production capacities with the aim of being able to quickly deliver a product which they believe has a great future. I think they sell the cells at a price at which they do not really earn much at the moment. But it allows its customers, ie the automotive manufacturers, to offer products at a price that the end user can also pay. Then, of course, material-technological developments will also come to the fore. On the one hand, one tries to reduce the more expensive materials such as cobalt in the quantity. On the other hand, the batteries are also cheaper because of the increase in the energy densities, because the prices are automatically decreasing, because higher energy densities also mean that less material consumption per kilowatt hours sold is necessary.
So do you believe in the future of the battery in mobility?
What would be the alternatives? It is easy to see that these are extremely limited. Therefore, we will not be around batteries. And we will be able to live very well with it.
arch1…most technology like this takes so long to get to market, it is hard to take investment action in the here and now.
Even a wave like EV takes a long time to build up. Something may come along like hydrogen fuel cells, or a battery component innovation; but in the next 5 years ?
The VW website has a map of recharging stations across the country. These stations are going to need power. Where will it come from ?
The way things are setting up it begins to appear that auto industry will build slowly but is committed for a long haul. That is probably good for investors as a slow building wave lasts longer.
Do not overlook the electric generation capacity that will be needed and implicatios for the whole construction industry in boilers transformers.
capacitors and storage/transmission. Steel zinc, copper, silver and alkali metals as well as we what we discuss here. At some point I think Nuclear and Uranium will be an imperative to get enough capacity. All should be accompanied by hardening the grid against EMP attack. Should soon see this sector getting a lot more attention. IMO
Re Cobalt,,, A friend mentioned this;
There was an interesting line in that German article. It implied that theres such a shortage of battery metals that car companies may even have to get involved/finance mining.
Hn has always said $PGM is simply a real estate/take over play (agree) coz they will never be able to afford to build a mine}. But if neighbouring cleanteq proves the resource is there, one or more auto companies may buy PGM and contract the mining.
Would certainly make proven unmined property more desirable if resource bidding war begins.
That thought occurred to me last night. Their plans and/or profits are being seriously threatened for a period of decades. What is to stop Daimler or VW from acquiring a cobalt miner ? The Chinese have.
The capital involved is low. Look at the size of the acquisitions and mergers these guys have done. Why not ?
Very valid point hn, if they, the car manufacturers see it as an essential must have then acquiring it would or might be an option.
What just cane to mind is the huge buying that went on yesterday regards AUZ, there were suggestions that most of the buying was by the Chinese after a presentation in Hong Kong. Also some wondered whether this might lead to a take over. AUZ was up 41% overnight.
PGM is also creeping up, slowly but surely from my initial buy point.
They the car manufacturers will not be happy if the tail is wagging the dog!
The Chinese already have a 50% stake in Cleanteq. So I would look at other cheap low caps to benefit from a Chinese or German shopping spree in cobalt.
There’s is going to be a lot at stake on DRC stability. Still much prefer New South Wales and Dobsina.
Hi.
I joined the HOT COPPER forum today !!
A guy linked to this John Kaiser Youtube media.
It gets interesting from 12.49, where there is a thesis on how RF will do his Scandium play. The speaker is convinced that RF is going to let Scandium International develop the market and then later take over Scandium International !!
Your thoughts ?
https://youtu.be/0pKMN24Ts3Y
Hi Curtis, thanks; could be, it seems reasonable. We were discussing that a few posts prior, I think one of the readers saw the same video you did.
My opinion is that neither SCY nor Platina will really get anything off the ground, they are mostly attractive for their in-ground assets and I for one don’t believe they will really make a go of it. Certainly not for scandium.
Not sure how much value added SCY can offer in developing the market. They have no cash and have no production.
The consensus here seems to be that scandium is going to be a plus for Cleanteq, , as it develops, but not an immediate cash proposition; and that cobalt is the hot commodity that will cause stocks to move.
Renby made the point that a primary scandium project will have a slim chance of success, and I agree with him since scandium is a tiny market, and I believe Cleanteq will be first to production and be able to control the price.
Platina Resources did well today, up nearly 2c, a 17.83% increase.
Long PTNUF
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4114418-clean-teq-depth-analysis
CLQ!!
Almost all the data is from the October 9 public release.
https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/ann-high-grade-co-ni-cu-rock-chips-from-dobsina-waste-dumps.3766107/?source=email#.WefjR-jTXMI
EUC, especially for williamstown and hn as position taken and nice timing!
And for anyone else on board, got same gut on this as CleanTeQ……
Best SS
Thank YOU SecretSquirrel! https://www.dropbox.com/home/Metals?preview=auz101917z.pdf The Gummunity Rockz! #Best2ALL
https://www.stockgumshoe.com/2017/02/microblog-scandium-cobalt-and-water-purification-cleanteq-holdings/comment-page-9/#comment-4953319 & prior…
You have to laugh. The cobalt grades in their waste dumps is higher than anybody else’s ore grades. Wonder how much of it they have.
Long EUC
$EUC…more chuckles.
The press release last week on the massive sulfides was on samples they took from the side of a road ! EUC is finding higher grades in their waste dumps and roadsides than most
prospects are able to find with drilling detection equipment. They probably don’t even need to drill
to find enough cobalt. They are tripping over the stuff.
Ardea just did what Cleanteq just did, and what Platina needs to do. Completely redefine their project from the standpoint of cobalt. Honestly, all 3 of these companies just lucked out with these high grade cobalt deposits, none of them bought their property based on cobalt. But then cobalt went from $12 to $28 and boy does that make all the difference in the world [equivalent would be gold going to $3000/oz]. If cobalt goes to $50, and that is something with a real chance of happening, even if it is just a short term spike, the valuations on these companies will go parabolic. Even if cobalt stays at todays price, the market caps on all three of these companies are silly, especially ardea and platina.
Renby, I have been trying on your blue glasses and the view is pretty good.
The big car guys are committing to EVs and I do not see how cobalt prices can stay under $30 for very long.
Just going onto the auto websites you can see what is happening. The number of electric models is burgeoning fast.
I wrote about this change in my outlook on the “Hard Asset” thread, but is really belongs over here. To sum up, like you my biggest position is Cleanteq;
but I have positions in EUC, Ardea, and Platina.
Thanks to everyone who has participated in the cobalt discussion…especially you, billville and Squirrel. Should be a lot of fun.
Cobalt…The Evolution of an Investment Position on Stock Gumshoe
I’d like to take a moment to review how my positions in cobalt came about.
It remains to be seen if they will gain or lose. But the process illustrates the advantage we
have in selection and evaluation, if we co-operate.
**
A reader “frahman” posted a link to an interview of Robert Friedland. This led to my interest in Ivanhoe Mines.
Because of this, I found Cleanteq. My interest was in scandium and Cleanteq’s extraction technology. The cobalt was an accident. Sogiam’s interest in water on another thread made me sensitive to the potential in that sector and was very influential in my assessment of the potential of Cleanteq.
Thus, Cleanteq was my first position in cobalt, taken by accident because I was after scandium and water.
Another reader posted a link that mentioned Platina Resources. Had never heard of them.
I discovered that they were next door to Syerston.
A new reader observed the correlation of Cleanteq to nickel. Discussion of cobalt began to heat up.
A reader supplied info from Europe on the political situation in the DRC, where about 2/3 of the world’s cobalt supply comes from.
Williamstown presented EUC and outlined the reasons he believed it was a strong speculation. Persistently.
.
Renby expressed the Renbyview Cobalt Outlook, and shared his allocations and picks.
Rubberworm then gave a link to a German publication that gave evidence of an immediate supply problem in cobalt.
That closed the case.
**
One reader posts a link that has important information in it.
One explains mine commissioning timeframes.
Another tells us what the scuttlebutt is in a mining town in British Columbia, or what is being reported on the news in continental Europe.
One starts a calendar. Another asks a question.
Someone else makes a suggestion on taking profits. Another one reports on a book or a newsletter review.
**
DYODD. We have a lot of eyes, ears, and ideas out there. But we still need to consider, filter, and evaluate. We need to think for ourselves.
Fortunately, one does not need to be an expert to read, listen, and share information that is pertinent, or to ask a question whose answer may require thought and generate insight.
The sum is more than the parts.
**
What started me on this investment path was a link by “frahman” to a video interview. Ironically, “frahman” ceased contributing to my threads shortly afterwards. I believe I offended him accidentally, or he did not like my politics, or something tangential like that. I regret it and apologize for any offense.
I feel gratitude towards him, because his contribution set me in a direction that has been profitable. Thanks, frahman.
And thanks to everyone else who has made a constructive and well-meaning contribution…whether my position goes up or down. Up is better, though.
Long Cleanteq, Platina, EUC, Ardea.
ICYMI, Travis wrote an article that is relevant to Cobalt 27 Capital (KBLT.V, CBLLF) & Ardea Resources (ARL.AX, ARRRF) https://www.stockgumshoe.com/reviews/the-casey-report/friday-file-green-california-goes-dark-co-27-pitch-plus-portfolio-updates/ Best2ALL
Want a good investment tip, how bout a bar in New South Wales. That place oughta be swimming with miners in 5 years. Imagine the bar fights. The cleanteq guys laugh at the Platina guys market cap, tell auz guys you want to come over and see our autoclaves. Hey do you guys have the new magneto-sonar-ionic cobalt detection sensors. Oh, you’re just using shovels? Well maybe after we buy you I become your professor.
Hey Renby are you trying to take HN’s position as the resident comic!
We’re the new Blues Brothers, as in cobalt blue
The trick to attract explorers and miners to your saloon:
Year 1: Dig a square hole in the ground, cover it with a tent. Might want to get the sewer done & pour a slab but maybe not. Large table and a cooler full of beer plus cases of whisky are a must, only two varieties of each. (Use your imagination for the add-ons that keep explorers and miners happy) A stairway or crude elevator has to happen, not sure which is best. Start building a 5-10 megawatt solar array, a town is coming in a few years.
Year 2: Get the basics in for sure now, start building walls however you want to build them, keep the tent in place. Add to your beer and liqueur offerings. Pizza and sandwiches is always a good idea. No clocks, time means nothing to this group and the pit never closes.
Year 3: Build a ceiling, add a few extras, and start constructing main floor walls….
I’m sure you get the picture, if you want to be a hit with these guys do as they do and be sure to record every step in photos and vid for posterity. Document every move and change the name of your place every once is a while, it’s good for business especially if you have made mistakes along the way. Could add a whole lot more but I am working on my money pit and most of my creative juices are getting expended here. Best.
HN I’m trying to do DD on when BMR – Battery Mineral Resources Pty Ltd aud – unlisted company – as to the date it proposes to list on the Nasdaq/ Tsx?
Has approx. 1000 kms in the Ontario Cobalt Belt area, and surrounding area.
Any help welcomed.
Over in the US we can’t even get information on EUC or Jervois.