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Doc Gumshoe – COVID-19 Miscellany, May 2020

I decided to add the year to my title in the event that this thing goes on for another full year, and I have to do an update in May 2021.   I pray fervently that such an eventuality will not come to pass, but it’s certainly possible.   Having said that, your obedient servant Doc Gumshoe continues to be an optimist, more or less, and continues on the alert for positive developments and hopeful bits of news.

Well, all I know is what I see on the internet, as Will Rogers would have said if he were around these days.   But here are some topics that Doc Gumshoe has looked at carefully, and which I hope you will think deserving of attention.

The first, and likely most important and most hopeful of these is the emergence of herd immunity.

When, and how, will herd immunity emerge to protect us from the coronavirus?

The “herd” I am referring to here is not cows or sheep, but us – the human population.   The way it works, and the reason it works, is that viruses are not able to survive on their own.   They can exist for a limited time outside of a host.   The duration of that limited time varies among different viruses; in the corona virus (now designated SARS-CoV-2) under normal circumstances it may be as long as 48 hours, but usually much shorter.   It depends, as probably you have heard, on its specific environment; for example, on steel or hard plastic, it might still be present and a possible source of infection 48 hours after it was first deposited there by a cough or a sneeze.   On some other metals, such as copper, not more than about 6 hours.   On paper, cardboard, textiles, and other absorbent surfaces, a considerably shorter time.   Of course, researchers have their ways of keeping the virus alive and active for longer.    

Therefore, in order to survive, a virus needs to penetrate a living being and kidnap the resources it needs to reproduce, which it manages with considerable efficiency.   Multitudes of viral particles can take up residence in a single living cell, appropriate the cell’s own functions, kill the cell, and emerge to invade other cells.   In the case of the novel corona virus, the spikes on the exterior of the virus have the special ability to attach to receptors on the exterior of living cells in the host.   These spikes, by the way, are what give corona viruses their name – they resemble a crown.   

When it penetrates the living cell, the virus is recognized as an invader, and the innate immune system of the living being that the virus has invaded (the host) will produce antibodies, which at the same time can attach to the viral particles and alert the immune system’s defense forces to attack the virus.   The host that the virus has invaded – human or animal – uses its immune response to combat and eliminate the virus.   An all-out war has been declared, and the host is the battlefield.   This is not necessarily agreeable for the host.   We – the human hosts that have been invaded by the virus – develop fevers, inflammation, aches, and other symptoms that we may interpret as signs that we are sick, but are in reality signs that we’re desperately fighting off a severe disease.

But even after the virus’s host wins this war – which we fervently hope the host does win – the antibodies remain, and act as sentries in case the virus should invade again.   It’s not known at this moment what degree of immunity those persons have who have been infected with the evil corona virus and fought off the COVID-19 disease, but what is known about viruses strongly suggests that some immunity will be present in those individuals.   How powerful that immunity will be and how long it will last is a matter of speculation at this time.   

Vaccines are the other pathway to immunity.   At present, more than 100 potential COVID-19 vaccines are in development.   We’ll take a look at a few of the more promising candidates later on in this piece, but despite a certain person’s promise to have 300 million doses of a vaccine available by January of 2021, that timetable seems a stretch.

A vaccine is carefully crafted to produce an immune response without causing the actual disease.   Frequently vaccines do cause some mild symptoms, and the symptoms do vary among the many vaccines.   The smallpox vaccine usually produced a single little pox on the skin at the site of the inoculation.   Many vaccines cause aching arms at the injections site, and mild headaches or a mild  sickish feeling.   (What Doc Gumshoe can state with total conviction is that vaccines do not cause autism.)   

In any case, those mild symptoms are manifestations of an immune reaction, which is what the vaccine is meant to trigger.   The immune reaction essentially means that the vaccinated individual now has a troop of sentinels which are primed to recognize the invasion of the specific pathogens and summon a militia of phagocytes and lymphocytes.   In the case of viruses, the most effective militia are a class of lymphocytes called T-cells, sometimes called natural killer cells, which are highly effective against most viruses.

(Exceptions to this are retroviruses like the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) that causes AIDS.   These are particularly successful in terms of viral life, because they do not trigger an immune response.   Instead, they take over the host’s immune system, disabling T-cells.   Individuals infected with HIV can live for years without exhibiting any symptoms.   However, during those years they continue to carry and transmit HIV.   This is good for the virus, but catastrophic for the human hosts.)

At this point, no one can say with certainty whether individuals who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and recovered have immunity to the virus, and if so, how strong that immunity is and how long it will last.   The assumption is that those individuals will have some immunity, and the hope is that the immunity will persist long enough to protect those individuals from infection in at least the near future.   The same hope applies to the effects of a vaccine.   

The hope, essentially, is that enough persons – either because they have had the disease or been vaccinated, or both – will possess a degree of immunity such that the virus cannot spread like wildfire through the population.   The percentage of individuals in the community necessary to provide immunity to the entire herd of humanity is not precisely known, but it is quite high.   The human race was protected from smallpox by herd immunity because almost everybody had been vaccinated against smallpox.   (That herd immunity has vanished at this point, since people are no longer routinely vaccinated against smallpox, but the disease itself has also vanished.)   Up until quite recently, herd immunity kept the measles totally under control, but then a few parents decided that vaccinating their children against the measles violated their principles, with the result that the measles reappeared, and there were even deaths from the measles.

The way herd immunity works is by depriving the pathogen of a site to which it can spread and reproduce.   If in a class of 30 children, all are vaccinated, even if one child gets the measles despite being vaccinated, it doesn’t spread.   (Since no vaccine is 100% effective, some children who have been vaccinated may also get the measles.)      The child recovers; the measles virus expires since it has no place to hide.   But if a sizeable number of children are not vaccinated, the measles will spread.   

In brief: the transmission of a disease, whether bacterial or viral, is in inverse proportion to the percentage of the population that has immunity.   The more people that are immune, the less the disease spreads; the fewer people that are immune, the more the disease spreads.

I deeply hope that herd immunity rises in our country and the world because of the availability of a vaccine and the widespread use of the vaccine, and not because the corona virus itself has infected most of the world’s population.   And I also deeply hope that when this vaccine becomes available, the vaccine deniers don’t try to quash it by manufacturing rumors that the vaccine itself causes some dire disease.   A great deal depends on widespread vaccination – not less than the future of humanity and civilization.   

So, when will a vaccine become generally available?

That depends on whom you ask, and also where you’re asking from.   The White House proclaims that a vaccine will be available to one and all (at least here in the good old USA) by January, 2021.   To that end, a project has been announced whose objective is having 300,000,000 doses – that’s 300 million, by next January.   The project, dubbed Operation Warp Speed, is headed by Moncef Slaouli, who was chairman of vaccines at GlaxoSmithKline.   General Gustave F. Perna, who is in charge of the Army Matériel Command, will be the chief operating officer, tasked with getting those 300 million doses of the hoped-for vaccine manufactured and distributed.

The plan is that the fruit of their labors will be an effective vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 which will be exclusively reserved for Americans.   The plan, according to sources familiar with the plan, is to have 100 million doses available this November and the other 200 million in December and January of next year.   

The project initially focused on 14 candidates selected from the 110 or so possible vaccines that have emerged in the past few months.   That list of 14 was narrowed to eight, chosen in part because they represent different technologies, or platforms, as they are called.   Much of the focus thus far has been on just two technologies.   One constructed with the messenger RNA encoding the corona virus surface proteins that form the spike, or crown.   The other uses an adenovirus (one of the viruses that causes the common cold) to carry a protein that has the capacity to disable the corona virus.   However, other pathways to disable or eliminate the corona virus are being investigated, and the Operation Warp Speed project will consider these as well.

An official speaking for the project made the point that Warp Speed will not consider pushing any potential vaccines made in China or based on Chinese research, such as the inactivated virus vaccine which was recently shown to protect monkeys from the virus.   However, the winning candidate might well be manufactured by a company that is not headquartered in the United States.

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Warp Speed’s plan, based perhaps as much on hope as on careful preparation, is to have all candidate vaccines in human trials by July of this year.   At the same time, the plan is to conduct large-scale investigations of safety in hamsters and monkeys, in order to winnow out any vaccine that produces significant adverse events. 

In the meantime, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) has an initiative called Accelerating COVID-19 Interventions and Vaccines (ACTIV).   It’s relationship with Warp Speed remains unclear.   ACTIV plans to coordinate clinical trial of several COVID-19 vaccines, and is also considering human challenge studies, in which vaccines would be fast-tracked by immunizing healthy subjects (volunteers, of course) and then deliberately infecting them with SARS-CoV-2 or a weakened version of it.   This, I should hardly need to point out, is highly controversial.   However, a phalanx of courageous volunteers has already come forward.

One promising candidate is a vaccine in development by Moderna, Inc (MRNA).   In early trials it was found that the vaccine, mRNA-1273 produced levels of antibodies in trial subjects similar to those found in blood samples from persons who have recovered from COVID-19.   Moderna is planning to start late stage trials in July.

Other efforts to develop a vaccine include the Coronavirus Global Response, organized by the European Commission.   The World Health Organization (WHO) and other groups have formed the Access to COVID-19 Tools Accelerator.   And the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is watching about 15 vaccine candidates and will support the most promising among them.   These initiatives aim to achieve equitable worldwide distribution of vaccines when they become available.   Many experts have expressed concern that the Warp Speed plan, which would restrict any resulting vaccines for use in the US only, would deny access to such vaccines to the most vulnerable populations outside the US.  These concerns led more than 140 world leaders to sign an open letter asking governments to consider Covid-19 vaccines to be a “global good” and ensure equal access when the resource does become available.

What is the real fatality rate?

As of today, May 18, when I am writing this, the total number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 on the planet is 4,758,937, with 316,277 fatalities.   These numbers are certainly inaccurate, since every country tracks these numbers somewhat differently.   They are also certain to constitute a considerable undercount, because not every person was tested who had possible COVID-19 symptoms, nor was every person tested who died in the period since COVID-19 emerged.   

Ecuador stands out as a prime example.   Despite its relatively youthful and generally healthy population, Ecuador experienced a high rate of infection and death due to COVID-19, even based on the official confirmed figures.   However, consider this: between March 1st and April 15th, there were 7,600 more deaths in Ecuador than the average number during that span of time in the pre-COVID-19 years.   The number of deaths that the government had officially attributed to the corona virus during that period was 503.   If many or most of those 7,600 excess deaths were due to COVID-19, it would suggest that the actual COVID-19 fatality rate in Ecuador was as much 15 times higher than the official published rate.   (The term “excess deaths” is the epidemiologists’ terminology for the gap between the observed and normal number of deaths; the rest of us probably consider any deaths at all to be in excess of what is desirable.)

In the US, the indications are that in at least nine states the excess fatality rate has been far above normal.   These include California, Colorado, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Vermont, and Washington.   New York City alone has reported 13,831 confirmed COVID-19 deaths as well as another 5,408 probably related to COVID, but the excess death gap totaled 24,172, suggesting that there may have been nearly 5,300 unreported COVID deaths,       

New York State has so far tested about 7,500 for corona virus antibodies.     Statewide, nearly 1 in 7 tested positive for the antibodies, and in New York City, the number was higher – 1 in 5 New York City residents tested positive for coronavirus antibodies.   Those results suggest that about 2.7 million people in the state of New York have at this point been infected with the corona virus.

When I look at the ratio between confirmed COVID-19 cases and fatalities in various communities in my part of the country, the discrepancies are quite large, and surprising.   For instance, as of May 13th:

 

WhereConfirmed

Cases

FatalitiesPercent
Putnam County, NY1,10870.6
Westchester County ,NY31,6111,2453.4
Fairfield County. CT13,6361,0687.8
New Haven, CT9,5707457.8
Hartford, CT7,73297312.5

These differences probably reflect genuine environmental factors that affect infection rates and fatality rates.   Putnam County is a good deal more rural than Westchester County, thus making it easier for people to maintain social distancing.   In Connecticut, Hartford is more congested than New Haven or Fairfield County.   However, it’s also likely that there are differences in the availability of testing between various areas.   

The COVID-19 fatality rate has hit certain populations particularly hard.   For example, in a veteran’s care facility in New Jersey, 72 people died, more than 10% of the residents – not 10% of the confirmed cases, as we were discussing above, but 10% of the entire population of the facility.   Nursing homes and some hospitals have been disproportionately hit, no doubt due to the extreme difficulty (not to say impossibility) of maintaining distancing between persons, as well as the compromised health of the residents.   For example, 70% of the COVID-19 deaths in the state of Connecticut have occurred in nursing homes or senior care facilities.   The town where I live in Fairfield County has reported about 40 COVID-19 fatalities to date, but 38 of these have been in senior assisted living facilities.      

Housing conditions and living arrangements clearly affect the fatality rate, likely due to difficulties in maintaining distancing.   A person living in a multiple-story apartment building or housing project may have no choice but to ride in crowded elevators and walk in hallways that do not permit distancing.                

It has been clearly established that COVID-19 has affected some ethnic/racial groups more severely than others.   The fatality rate among black and Hispanic populations is significantly higher than among the white population, and this difference is largely attributable to economic disparities that are reflected in living conditions.   More crowding, sometimes resulting in several persons sharing one room, lead to a higher fatality rate, for obvious reasons.   It is also likely that there are more deaths from COVID-19 that have not been specifically attributed to the virus.   

The factors that point to a significantly higher fatality rate from COVID-19 than the confirmed deaths almost certainly apply to the rest of the world.   My source of information about the global spread of the disease is the John Hopkins website, which as of today shows that in 104 countries the number of fatalities has only attained double digits, and in about 11 of these, the number of fatalities is in the single digits.   For example, Botswana has reported one single fatality.   Those low fatality figures are almost certainly due to low testing rates.   Deaths in individuals who have not been confirmed as infected with the corona virus are not counted as COVID-19 fatalities, so it’s a virtual certainty that both the number of cases and the number of deaths are greatly underreported, especially in the less-developed world.

There are also differences in the rates of infection and death stemming from the way the disease is managed in different places.   An example is a comparison between fatalities in Sweden compared with Norway, neighboring countries with similar cultures and economic conditions.   However, while Norway has practiced the social distancing and restriction of a great many businesses and entertainment enterprises, Sweden has mostly skipped those restrictions, concentrating on the elderly population, based on the reports that it’s the elderly that the virus most impacts.   However, the fatality figures cast doubt on that calculation.   Sweden’s population is not quite double Norway’s, but the fatality rate is three and a half times that of Norway’s.  

What this might imply about the ultimate toll of the COVID-19 pandemic is a matter of speculation.   Comparison with the influenza pandemic of 1918 – 1919 is inevitable but not necessarily enlightening.   That pandemic was perhaps the second deadliest pandemic in history, second only to the bubonic plague that may have caused the deaths of a hundred million (or more!) during the 14th century, when the global population was a tiny fraction of what it is today.   The flu pandemic killed about 50 million people globally, and 675,000 people in the US.   There were more deaths due to that pandemic than to World War I.   Many of the measures used at that time were similar to the ones we have adopted today, including closing schools and places of public entertainment, requiring people to wear masks in public, and enforcing “no spitting” ordinances.

Estimates vary enormously on the number of infected and the number of deaths before the corona virus is tamed.   Most knowledgeable authorities project a rate of infection and fatality that will ultimately reach major multiples of current levels, particularly in less developed parts of the world.   Ultimately, a great deal depends on immunity, whether as a result of a vaccine or because of the numbers of infected people around the globe who have recovered and retained immunity.

How can we tell whether or not we have immunity to the corona virus?

As of about a week ago, a test for antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 has received FDA Emergency Use Authorization.   This test, developed by Abbott, analyzes serum from a blood sample for immunoglobulin G I(IgG) and takes about three to five days for a result.   According to Abbott, this assay has specificity of 99.6% and sensitivity of 100%.   The specificity figure indicates a very low likelihood of false positives, meaning that a person receiving a positive result with this test can be almost certain that he/she was indeed infected with the corona virus.   The sensitivity figure indicates that if the test result is negative, meaning that the assay did not detect IgG related to the corona virus, the person can be entirely certain that he/she was not infected. 

The value of an antibody test is that a person with positive corona virus antibodies is likely, but not certain, to have at least a degree of immunity.  Does that mean that this person can totally ignore the precautions that the rest of us careful folk are taking every day?   At this point, we do not know for sure.   However, knowing that in all likelihood we had the infection and have some immunity must surely ease our minds.   Wearing the face mask and washing our hands is no big deal.   Hugging and kissing our friends and acquaintances might need to be deferred for a while.   We can probably go out to dinner, but it would make sense to pick a restaurant where the tables are not too scrunched together.   I would be skeptical about going to the movies.   And if you run into a guy who’s sneezing his head off, give him wide berth.

The Abbott antibody test, which is used by Quest Labs and a number of other sites, is not to be confused with the rapid test for the presence of the virus itself, also made by Abbott.   That test, Abbott Laboratories’ ID NOW molecular COVID-19 rapid test, supposedly could deliver positive results in as little as five minutes.   Because of the speedy results, this test was adopted for use at the White House, and in one case apparently caused considerable confusion.   Vice President Pence’s press secretary, Katie Miller, tested negative on the ID NOW test, but a few days was tested again and tested positive.   She is one of two White House staff personnel who have tested positive and are now in quarantine.   

The ID NOW test was examined closely by New York University’s Langone Labs, using samples from 101 patients.   Those test results were compared with the result of the Cepheid Xpert Xpress test, and the NYU researchers found that the ID NOW test missed detecting the corona virus in a large percentage of the samples that the Cepheid test had found positive.   The false negatives rate ran from about 33% to 48%, depending on the way the test samples were stored before analysis.   The ID NOW test, by the way, is not a blood test, but a nasal swab test.   Abbott, as might be expected, strongly disagreed with the results of the NYU lab’s investigation, asserting that their analysis was not properly conducted and that their own research had put the false negative rate at about 0.02%.

Some conclusions, put forward with some hesitation

A Doc Gumshoe reader commented recently that it would be a good idea for me to put my main take-aways in bullet form at the end of these pieces.   I hesitate to do this, because those “conclusions” are less conclusive when stripped from the context.   But I can see that it might make some sense to do that, so here goes…

  • One, first and foremost, our salvation lies in herd immunity.   It’s possible, of course, that the evil coronavirus will just peter out, but we humans (by which I mean all of us) can absolutely not rely on that.   Herd immunity, whether because huge numbers of us have had mild cases of COVID-19 or because all of us have been vaccinated, is what will bring an end to this pandemic.
  • Two, it is absolutely imperative that, when a vaccine becomes available, we all get vaccinated.
  • Three, it is highly likely that the total toll, disease and death, due to SARS-CoV-2, will be much, much higher than it has been to date.   As bad as it has been, it will – at least in some parts of the world – get worse.    

If you think this is a departure from my usual optimistic self, you are mistaken.   I remain an optimist.   I have confidence in the resourcefulness and resolve of our researchers and of at least some of our leaders.   I also think that most of us humans are pretty good folk, and will hang together to see this through.

Thanks for your comments, and, to all of you, be well and stay well.   Michael Jorrin, (aka Doc Gumshoe)

(Ed. Note:  Michael Jorrin, who I dubbed “Doc Gumshoe” many moons ago, is a longtime medical writer (not a doctor) who shares his thoughts on health and medicine with our readers a couple times a month.  He does not offer personal health or investment advice, and does not generally write about investment ideas, but has agreed to our trading and disclosure rules.  You can see all of his past columns here.)

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Cristina Santamarina
Member
Cristina Santamarina
May 19, 2020 8:49 am

Thank you – WONDERFUL article – sensible and informed. As a retired RN I have to add that one thing impeding the Covid 19 efforts is in-fighting and plays for power among agencies and institutions. Since they have been sanctified lately during the Coronavirus this is never mentioned. My parents – mother RN & father MD – were born & practiced before antibiotics, were always struck by the extreme dependence on antibiotics now in medicine. They also were very disgusted by the lack on sanitation in modern healthcare facilities. If you saw how poorly nursing homes and hospitals are cleaned and the total lack of education and caring among their staffs, you would understand how the residents and patients have succumbed not to mention their multiple comorbidities and age.

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geauxnow
geauxnow
May 19, 2020 9:20 am

I’m surprised you didn’t bring up leronlimab. Mark this note….it will be the leading therapy for COVID-19 in short order.

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Jools
Guest
Jools
May 19, 2020 10:20 am
Reply to  geauxnow

Can you say more?

geauxnow
geauxnow
May 19, 2020 4:11 pm
Reply to  Jools

I can – go to cytodyn.com to see the latest on the company, and view the following youtube sessions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW6IxELNtj4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUboPq8vbUg

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OSUfball
Irregular
May 20, 2020 4:36 pm
Reply to  Jools

The yahoo finance message board for Cytodyn (CYDY), the company that owns leronlimab, is a good source of the latest info.

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vizsluv
Member
vizsluv
May 19, 2020 10:21 am

THANK YOU for the non-partisan insight! Your messages are one of the few I look forward to every day.

lukewb45
lukewb45
May 19, 2020 6:07 pm
Reply to  vizsluv

Amen vizsluv, I have been really getting tired of reading about this pandemic because politics make it so hard to get a straight answer. If you happened to see Navarro’s interview on Sunday you will understand that without a doubt the admin accepts that China let this thing go on purpose. “They shut down their country and let international travel continue.” I had a troublesome thought in the early days of this pandemic that perhaps they actually deployed it. They know that their authoritarian government and economic system stands a much better chance of getting through something like this. I’m not insinuating we won’t but I suspect it will be more painful. The attitude that has made America great in the past may work against us in the present. Guess we shall see. Thanks for the somber write up Doc.

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gillyak
May 25, 2020 12:34 pm
Reply to  lukewb45

I suspect China did not act for awhile knowing full well it would wind up in its chief adversary, the USA. They knew our response would be anemic, chaotic and cause an economic crisis and divisiveness, not to mention the public health crisis . Such things happen when two countries and cultures are set on a collision course.

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John Bird
Irregular
John Bird
May 19, 2020 10:24 am

Well Done. A pleasure to read a calm well reasoned review of Covid. The surprise is that it is lurking in a financial page dedicated to debunking false hopes. The same skepticism and detailed analysis that you apply to the next perpetual motion fantasy serves you well.

Tom M
Member
Tom M
May 19, 2020 10:24 am

You will never get herd immunity wearing masks or with social distancing and being locked in your living space. SARS, a type of coronavirus has no vaccine and they have trying for about 10 years to develop one. I believe that TB cases are being confused with Covid-19. The Covid death count is being wrongly skewed to force continued quarantine of HEALTHY PEOPLE!

There is no vaccine for TB and it usually affects the younger among us and is slow in developing. It is somewhat similar to the current virus (although I am not convinced C-19 is a virus). There will be no Covid vaccine in the next 3 years that will be found to be effective.

WHO is already hinting at a 3 year worldwide lockdown. Do any of you vaccine lovers know what that means? While the author always presents a well researched case for his beliefs, all the optimism in the world will not replace common sense, fake fear and unwarranted panic…which many people are still believing in.

I would much rather take my chances living in the outside world than to be herded into sheltering and risking even more disease from isolation, less sun, and no interaction with others including hugging, hand-holding and kissing. And that’s how I am living. Even if these medical geniuses come up with a vaccine, I will not be using it EVER!.

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ronwill
May 19, 2020 11:00 am
Reply to  Tom M

The reason there is no SARS vaccine is not because one could not be made. There were several in development and going thru the different trial phases for approval. But then the SARS virus petered out on it own and interest was lost in creating a vaccine and funding dried up. There is a TB vaccine but it is rarely used in the USA. As for the rest of your argument, good luck with that. I personally do think things should be handled more like Sweden did. Probably all the social distancing and stuff will make a second and third wave more likely instead of getting it over with. But perhaps the goal is to not have the medical systems overwhelmed all at one and spread it out.

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elg_66
May 20, 2020 11:42 am
Reply to  ronwill

Yep, the goal is to spread it out and not overwhelm the medical system while hoping for a credible treatment and/or vaccine. Read more on the outcome of the Swedish experiment. As Doc Gumshoe pointed out Sweden’s population-based infection rate was way higher than neighboring Norway. Also look at the death rate. They basically sacrificed their older population in favor of gaining herd immunity.

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writeval
Member
writeval
May 21, 2020 9:46 pm
Reply to  ronwill

Definitely the idea is both to protect our older and immunocompromised citizens, along with easing the incredible strain on the medical system. They’re stressed to the point of breaking in many communities. Personally I’m not too worried about it for myself, I’d like to think I’m young and healthy enough to fight it off; but they’re discovering increasingly nasty long-term organ damage done even in supposedly “mild” cases, one never knows if they’re going to be one of the unlucky 20% severe cases requiring hospitalization (or worse, one of the very very unlucky 6% terminal cases requiring a body bag). And I’d much rather get it a little further down the road when an effective treatment might have been discovered.

Re-opening the country with extensive testing and contact tracing, as well as mandatory mask wearing, would drop the transmission rate by something like 80-90% ; but unfortunately there’s no national plan, and common-sense tactics have unfortunately been politicized to the point where 40% of the country is refusing to cooperate. It’s truly a tragedy.

worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 12:22 pm
Reply to  Tom M

BRILLIANT

jgreen22
jgreen22
May 19, 2020 12:38 pm
Reply to  Tom M

To think that TB is being confused with COVD is simply wrong. Just about everything is clinically different. Misinformation.

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worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 12:54 pm
Reply to  Tom M

in fact, wearing masks decreases oxygen and increases carbon dioxide in your blood That increases acidity, fertile ground for cancer cells to grow.
Normally you breathe out viruses and bacteria that live in your mouth, when blocking them with a mask you’re inhaling them into your lungs, setting yourself up for possible strep.staph,klebsiella.
The mask does not protect you, viruses are super miniscule and will get in. They “might” protect others but NO PROOF that’s the case.
So all they do is WEAKEN your immune system.
Same with being cooped indoors.
Great ploys to have everyone scared to death by overhyped fatality numbers. When scared it is your limbic brain that interferes with your thinking brain, You’re much more likely to agree to what you would not agree to otherwise. FEAR IS THE CURRENCY OF CONTROL.

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jgreen22
jgreen22
May 19, 2020 1:10 pm
Reply to  worthit

Misinformation. Wearing a mask will not increase your CO2 in your blood. Your breathing rate is controlled in large part due to CO2 and you will simply breathe more with a mask. Your blood pH will not change. There is no risk of increased infection or cancer due to masks..

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shieldmaiden
shieldmaiden
May 20, 2020 9:14 pm
Reply to  worthit

Look for an article in NATURE re: efficacy of wearing masks. If 60% of us wore a 60% effective mask, we would reduce the logarithmic spread of COVID-19. The point is not to just think about yourself, but your fellow human being.

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gillyak
May 25, 2020 12:36 pm
Reply to  worthit

Oy vey!

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Doc Figshoe
Member
Doc Figshoe
May 19, 2020 1:25 pm
Reply to  Tom M

Everyone is welcome and free to their beliefs- that’s the wonderful thing about the US (and other countries)! However, when your beliefs in practice cause harm to others, it’s a problem. We don’t all have to agree on everything, but for anything to work, we have to agree on some very basic principles.

Principles like:
– COVID-19 IS a virus;
– It can be tested for;
– It is contagious;
-Injecting bleach is bad for human health… and so on.

If someone doesn’t agree with our most basic of assumptions- again, that’s fine- you just don’t get to participate in discussions and problem-solving with the adults. You’re in the ‘ain’t quite right’ camp that everyone instantly dismisses.

worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 8:08 pm
Reply to  Doc Figshoe

point proven. Tell me what is false in my statement?
isn’t it the whole point of a vaccine TO MAKE YOU IMMUNE.
So, either you believe that when you are immunized you are safe, so doesn’t affect you or any other immunized person, OR you got your doubts but nevertheless want to force it on everybody.
So very EGOTISTICAL :
What most basic of assumptions? PLEASE enlighten me on that one!

Investor Clouseau
Investor Clouseau
May 20, 2020 2:18 am
Reply to  worthit

Did you bother to read the entire article? Doc dumbs it down for everybody; vaccines don’t guarantee immunity they severely cripple the severity and ability to spread. It’s not worth anyone’s time to engage in your attention seeking conspiracies. Stick to your dark Q corners of the internet.

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worthit
Guest
worthit
May 26, 2020 6:18 pm

which I bet you NEVER LOOK AT, For you what the main media tells you is gospel. Good luck with that.

elg_66
May 20, 2020 11:18 am
Reply to  worthit

You miss the point of stay-at-home orders, social distancing, hand washing, masks, etc. These measures are used to mitigate the rapid spread of the virus so as not to overwhelm the medical system and delay infection until an effective treatment and/or vaccine might be available. That’s why it has to apply to everyone.

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Ray
Member
Ray
May 23, 2020 3:44 am
Reply to  Doc Figshoe

New (& true) discoveries are always “dismissed”, along with their discoverers or inventors, like Fleming, & antibiotic, & Helicorbacter Pylori causing ulcers, & many others… New discoveries, & advances are most often made by a newcomer with less than 12 months in the field… The senior, authorities know that if the new truth was true, they would have thought of it, not some newcomer… We should not have to wait for the old guard to retire &/or die, to see progress; but, it is often the case… See ISOM.ca for “Science” instead of orthodoxy…

wallstrafed
wallstrafed
May 19, 2020 11:10 pm
Reply to  Tom M

You have all the answers. Do you work on Wall Street?. My close friend’s 31 year old son just succumbed to covid 19. That is a fact.

shieldmaiden
shieldmaiden
May 20, 2020 9:20 pm
Reply to  wallstrafed

So sad about your friend’s son–a life cut short too soon. Some will never “get” it until they get terribly sick, or someone close to them does. The concept of individualism taken far too far.

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shieldmaiden
shieldmaiden
May 20, 2020 9:10 pm
Reply to  Tom M

Actually, there is a vaccine for TB (“BCG”): I received it as a teenager. It never hurts to check your facts, right? Cheers, long life and good health to all.

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Claudio Pustelnik
Claudio Pustelnik
May 19, 2020 10:53 am

Excellent text. Clear and descriptive. Thank you.

dougdela
Guest
dougdela
May 19, 2020 10:54 am

There is growing evidence that the especially nasty side-effects of the infection are caused by a co-infection with gram-negative (anaerobic) bacteria often found in the oral cavity. I expect the effective treatments will soon switch to gram-negative antibiotics. ( see: https://www.ems-dental.com/en/prevent-protect-virtual-dental-summit-recorded … scroll down to Dr. Victoria Sampson … from 10:00 m to 25:00 m)

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jgreen22
jgreen22
May 19, 2020 12:44 pm
Reply to  dougdela

Oral anaerobes are relatively sensitive to most of the antibiotics being used to cover superinfections associated with COVID. Antibiotics that cover gram neg bacteria are used routinely.. This is not a large part of the story.

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glen478
Member
glen478
May 19, 2020 10:59 am

For the individuals as old as I am……. do you remember 1969 and the Hong Kong Flu? This was also designated a pandemic with over 100,000 deaths here in the US . It did not discriminate by age and was found in all states yet we the people and the MSM did not panic. Instead we allowed the medical community and personal responsibility to fight this. I am totally bewildered why we have let politicians now tell us what to do instead of our own physicians. Other than the fact that it is one more nail in the coffin of us giving total control over to the political establishment. At my station in life I do not worry for myself but for the world my 25 and 29 year old daughters are going to live in. Although having gone through the public school system and even private higher education they have both been indoctrinated into the status of “victimhood” and someone else always being at fault so they should be compensated .

worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 1:16 pm
Reply to  glen478

FULLY AGREE!

Jeffrey Fine
May 19, 2020 4:16 pm
Reply to  glen478

Don’t be concerned about being befuddled. The truth has fallen through and beyond coun ing the 200-day Moving Average. We have our noir gumshoe on duty. Kudos as always.

charlie
charlie
May 19, 2020 4:22 pm
Reply to  glen478

Glen 478. I am 79. I am overjoyed that there are people like you who AGREE with me . I get mocked frequently for my beliefs as being a doddery old fool.

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shieldmaiden
shieldmaiden
May 20, 2020 9:41 pm
Reply to  glen478

I am totally sympathetic to the idea of not letting our lives be ruled by fear. It is important to find a balance between keeping people as healthy as possible, reducing capacity overload at hospitals, and having a functioning economy. That being said, the Hong Kong Flu (influenza) and COVID-19 are very different. I am attaching a link for you. I would note that COVID-19 has a much higher mortality rate: as I write this, about 3 times as many people have died of COVI-19 in the U.S. as die each year from influenza. it also is causing complications–cardiovascular, kidney, and other organs can be affected after infection– that did not occur with the Hong Kong Flu. If you scroll down, you can see a table with the comparisons: https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-coronavirus-and-influenza/

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Whit
Member
Whit
May 19, 2020 11:02 am

Very good article. I have been reading up on H2 O2 therapy for treatment of covid19. The article I read stated nebulization H2O2 therapy using 3 percent H2O2 food grade H2O2 and distilled water kills 99 percent of known viruses including covid19. What do you think of this very cheep homopathic cure for covid19?

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jgreen22
jgreen22
May 19, 2020 12:52 pm
Reply to  Whit

Please do not try this. Hydrogen peroxide is a respiratory irritant and can cause interstitial lung disease. If you are healthy and without asthma you will probably survive. Since viral replication is intracellular there is no reason this should be effective. Of course if you like homeopathy, you could dilute the peroxide by 10 fold 10 times and that you be safer.

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dunnydame
dunnydame
May 24, 2020 3:44 pm
Reply to  Whit

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) can be used to kill the nasty little COVID-19 particles – but NOT by ingestion or inhaling. See this NIH article:
Effectiveness of Ultraviolet-C Light and a High-Level Disinfection Cabinet for Decontamination of N95 Respirators
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32363254/

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Anne
Member
Anne
May 19, 2020 11:04 am

I have received an email about a lady who has died at 104. She lived in a small USA country village during the Spanish Flu in 1914 (didn’t start in Spain, they gave the news as Europe was at war in 1914 so bad news wasn’t broadcast).
Her mother gave the family each Bicarbonate of soda (Sodium Hyrogen Carbonate) evey morning because it did them good. The rest of the villagers died, but their houshold survived. What they didn’t know and no Scientists today seem to know, is that no virus can exist in alkaline conditions. The family were drinking a glass of water laced with PH8. They were knocking out the virus without knowing exactly why.

Now Millions are been spent to be first to fabricte a vaccine. It’s sheer stupidity . We need lessons on 19 and 20th Century medical science as well as pinching methods of now dead for generating cheap energy. Cheap energy is no good if you are dead!

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Investor Clouseau
Investor Clouseau
May 20, 2020 2:33 am
Reply to  Anne

No human body could survive alkaline conditions. It’s why alkaline water is a sham. A healthy body carefully regulates blood pH and, healthy or not, nothing you put into your stomach is going to change that one bit. Trying to turn your stomach alkaline is just going to cause more stomach acid production, it won’t be helping your lungs and kidneys adjust your pH and it certainly won’t be affecting blood-born pathogens.

Delete those awful chain email in the future.

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Anne
Member
Anne
May 20, 2020 9:51 am

A teaspoonfull of baking soda in a glass of water is noway the strength of alkaline water being guzzuled all day. Baking soda quietens Hiatus Hernea after drinkng a glass of wine. Don’t mock until you have tried something yourself. The quantity of baking soda concerned would be laughed at by the kidneys as it unlikely to disrupt filtration.

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writeval
Member
writeval
May 21, 2020 9:37 pm
Reply to  Anne
1transplant
May 19, 2020 11:04 am

Because I am in the high risk group I will share my experience in hope that it might be informative and maybe helpful. I am 83 years old. I stayed in the first two or three weeks where I live with my daughter’s family in Utah. After that I ventured out to the grocery and drive-up eateries. (where I lived the general populace was about 50% cautious with PPE). There were few cases in the county.
I decided to take my annual trip to the south and the midwest. I am in Alabama at present. I spent two nights in motels in NE and MO. The motels were hardly occupied with only a very few travelers. Traffic was light out west but starting at Kansas City the traffic looked to be at normal volume from there east.
In Alabama the store employees use masks and gloves. About half the patrons wear masks. So far, none of the people I know have been affected. Our family regularly congregates with no ill effects so far.
Each person has to decide for themselves the risks they are willing to take. With maybe only a few years left to live I won’t spend it in fear. Having a strong constitution and good health all my life gives me confidence my system can fight off an infection. I hope you can, too. Good luck to all and God bless.

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Investor Clouseau
Investor Clouseau
May 20, 2020 2:40 am
Reply to  1transplant

I’ve been grappling with what it would be like to be in your situation and I’m glad you shared your articulate stance. It’s difficult to get everyone rowing in the same direction when not everyone is likely to contract the virus and of those that do only 1 in 5 adversely affected beyond the inconvenience of typical flu symptoms.

There’s no written manual on how to get people to buy into doing something for the good of the whole and I’ve never seen it more tricky than this virus that often shows no symptoms.

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Ray
Member
Ray
May 23, 2020 3:19 am

Closest thing to that manual [www.ISOM.ca], tells us how 5 countries have been curing covid-19, in the words & clinical experience of international M.D.s, who have been curing it for the last 1 & 1/2 months. Every patient given 24,000mgs. intravenous ascorbate for 7 days has recovered from the virus with no progression to SARS or pneumonia… Completely non-toxic, with no negative side effects… Just go to http://www.ISOM.ca … If you want to you can explain to us how these M.D.s & Scientists are wrong… More than a few Nobel winning doctor’s have been members, of the Journal of Orthomolecular medicine society ISOM.ca Let those who have ears hear…

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Janet James
Member
Janet James
May 27, 2020 6:22 pm
Reply to  1transplant

Good for you sir!
I think if people are so worried, they can just stay home., and quit being busybodies. (See what CS Lewis has to say about busybodies. My kids grew up with it on the fridge). I’m probably more high risk than many. I’m not scared. I refuse to wear a mask, and I refuse to use “their” terminology/lingo. Words. Mean. Things. And language has a way of insidiously affecting how people think.
I always thought the most intriguing aspect of Orwell’s “1984” was/is the concept of and intent behind Newspeak. I’m not playing. And if “they” want to trace me, come to my home, or force a vaccine on me, they better, (and I’m sure they will be), be prepared to kill me; I’m not going to jail for my right to my body.
I have 6 girls. None vaccinated. All breastfed for 2 years. No allergies. Rarely sick. No disabilities, learning disorders, or any weird stuff that used to be uncommon. All well educated, self-reliant, hard-working, and smarter than the average bear.
Frankly, I’m quite surprised at the closed-mindedness of those on this site. I, quietly, have thought of them differently on financial matters.
Guess they don’t go far beyond that. Too bad.

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brotherjim3
May 19, 2020 11:04 am

Thanks for another informative article, Doc.

You suggest that if/when a vaccine is developed, everyone get vaccinated. At the same time, with flu vaccines having somewhat limited effectiveness, and the propensity of viruses to mutate, I wonder how beneficial a vaccine will really be, even if 300 million doses do become available.

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jgreen22
jgreen22
May 20, 2020 11:44 am

From a white paper from Hopkins, “The mutation rate has been estimated
in various groups, ranging from about 1.05×10–3 to1.26×10–3
substitutions per site per year, which is similar to some estimates
of MERS-CoV mutation rates.5,7” This is a high rate of mutation. The good news is that most of the mutations will not change the pathogenicity of the virus and will make tracing the spread of the virus from locale to local easier. The bad new is this may make drug/vaccine development challenging.

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Ray
Member
Ray
May 23, 2020 3:25 am

Director of CDC Dr. Robert Redfield told us in 2018 that 80,000 Flu deaths occured in USA that season… How was that strain “not as deadly as they used to be”? Thanks, & be wise

BJI
Member
BJI
May 19, 2020 10:08 pm
Reply to  brotherjim3

I had all recommended childhood vaccines and recommended booster shots.
I’m 81 and have taken flu vaccine EVERY YEAR since it was available.
I had both pneumonia vaccines and the first available Shingles vaccine. I’m waiting for the second Shingles vaccine to be available

NONE of those gave me the disease it was supposed to prevent!
I NEVER got any of the diseases that the vaccine was to prevent! The WORST problem I’ve had with ANY of those is soreness from the needle penetrating my flesh!
YES, I WILL get the Covid vaccine when it’s available!!!

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elg_66
May 20, 2020 11:27 am
Reply to  BJI

Second shingles vaccine has been available for a couple of years now. Get it. You don’t want shingles. Had it before I got the shot. You don’t want it.

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JBW
JBW
May 19, 2020 11:05 am

Very informative article. Thank you.

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texasranger
texasranger
May 19, 2020 11:05 am

Latest numbers…For those under 60 you are much more likely to die from the seasonal flu than C19. Children are 50 times more likely to die from the flu than C19. Over 40% of all deaths from C19 are people in assisted living facilities or nursing homes. 99% of all cases have little to no symptoms. Believe our immune system is the solution to C19. As we age Vit D and Glutathione become deficient. 42% of US is Vit D deficient. Blacks are 82% deficient as the darker the skin the more difficult it is for your body to absorb Vit. D. Active Vit D from the Sun is much better than a pill. Up to 10x more likely to die from C19 if Vit. D deficient. Similar numbers for those that are Glutathione deficient. Since as we age Glutathione production decreases we need to take the precursors like NAC to produce Glutathione. Zinc prevents the replication of virus RNA in our cells. Hydroxychloroquine is a Zine ionophore and allows Zinc through our cell membranes. Quercetin also has Zinc ionophore properties and can be bought without a prescription. Stay healthy…

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worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 11:53 am
Reply to  texasranger

you got that fabulously CORRECT! Pity most people don’t EDUCATE themselves and just follow orders from doctors who have been steeped in Pharmaceuticals and know nothing else.

Investor Clouseau
Investor Clouseau
May 20, 2020 2:45 am
Reply to  texasranger

78% of statistics in internet crackpot comments are made-up

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texasranger
texasranger
May 21, 2020 6:26 pm

and which one do you think is made up?

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Janet James
Member
Janet James
May 27, 2020 7:13 pm

IC : citation please…

tony polony
Member
tony polony
May 19, 2020 11:29 am

Thank you Michael Jorrin

Carbon Bigfoot
Guest
Carbon Bigfoot
May 19, 2020 11:34 am
Carbon Bigfoot
Guest
Carbon Bigfoot
May 19, 2020 11:38 am
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
Bill Costello
Member
Bill Costello
May 19, 2020 11:44 am

Hey Mike…..thats the best info on the subject I have seen thusfar. Too bad the current s**t show president will never see it. You are the best Mike and thanks, bc

rjack34
Member
rjack34
May 19, 2020 2:21 pm
Reply to  Bill Costello

I am surprised to see hate thrown at the president in this regard (although I probably shouldn’t in these mostly pre-biased, stuck in your ways political atmosphere). I haven’t liked everything he is doing with this covid shutdown stuff, but I also doubt anyone would make “all the right decisions” as someone will always be pissed. Especially if it is just because of a pre-established bias.

I have been slow to even criticize my Governor (here in Michigan) since I do feel like she probably “thinks” she is doing good. (Although, then she says things like, “I should extend the stay at home order just to punish the protesters”, which then shows me her real side (spiteful, vengeful woman just trying to make a name in politico, and using Michigan citizens as her pawns).

As an independent I will say I did vote for him (Trump) simply because he was not part of the “political establishment” and promised to “drain the swamp”.

Unfortunately, he either was not able to, or just didn’t want to do it, and has become part of “the swamp”.

The biggest issue in the US, nay the world is not the Covid. It is the ponzi fiat cash system where the feds can just print money at a whim. Who do you think this helps and hurts the most?

I won’t say freedom has NO chance vs socialism (which is what the US is now; a “diet socialist state”, not quite a Venezuela, but not quite a capitalist free country, and surely plenty of federal government programs to go around).

But when one politician can say “Free this and that”, and the other would have to say something like, “I am slashing government and tying our currency back to gold. Initially it will be painful and a lot of government workers will lose their jobs. In the end the wealth gap will tighten, jobs will be created in mass, poor will be lifted out of poverty in great numbers, and America will be stronger, etc….”.

Nope, people who are not educated in (world) history, the massive rise of the middle class as true capitalism took hold in the 19th century, and our constitution, will shut politician #2 right out and look at politician #1 and say, “Yeah, give me the free stuff!”.

I like the economists Peter Schiff’s analogy in a recent interview (link below) where he said something to the extent like; it is like a very large person being told in order to lose weight and get healthy you will have to do this, this, this, and this. While some people would do it, we all know, most people in this situation view it as too painful to their normal ways, and are willing to just keep doing the same.

This whole Covid thing has only made the issue worse, and I know several people who don’t want to go back to work because they are making more money on unemployment. This is just creating future voters for which ever party wants to say “I have the free stuff”, which to be fair in bad times is both parties.

Unfortunately, the only alternative is Biden, and he for sure is part of the problem and I have no doubt he would accelerate the coming financial reckoning. So thus, another election of “kicking the eventual financial hyper-inflation down the road” to which we are getting closer and closer to all the time.

Some great resources on this topic:
A recent interview with the economist Peter Schiff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzDKHi-wEoc

If you like to read, a couple of real good ones: https://www.amazon.com/1913-Oliver-DeMille/dp/0985338768, and: https://www.amazon.com/Dishonest-Money-Financing-Road-Ruin/dp/1439214115

A good (albeit somewhat of a promo for his service) series about the history of money : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

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Sam Wiebaux
Guest
Sam Wiebaux
May 19, 2020 12:07 pm

The addition of a VALID, complete date, IS VERY HELPFUL!

THANKS FOR THAT MAJOR UPGRADE!

worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 12:18 pm

Doc gumshoe insinuates that parents who refused to have their kids vaccinated against the measles caused some other vaccinated kid to get the measles. Little does he say that measles vaccination leads in MANY to shingles later in life. Ironically now Pharma is ready to add another vaccine to the list : for shingles! Nice profit, no?
BTW, what’s wrong with getting the measles, I did when I was young and so did all my classmates. A week at home and that’s that.
No vaccine producers can EVER be taken to court -even it the vaccine killed – and knowing that most have ingredients like aluminum, bits of animal cells, etc. to make the vaccine potent enough to cause a reaction in the body makes me prefer to rely on MY OWN immune system to deal with the real thing. They better don’t FORCE that C19 vaccine or make it impossible to refuse by saying you can’t go to gatherings (eg shops, concerts, flights). NOBODY- whether you want the vaccine or not-should ever agree to “even the slightest hint in that direction”, because it would tell the government that your body is not yours, but belongs to the state. An absolute slippery slope into more rules, such as enforced chemo or radiation or shutting down natural products : an easy total greedy pharma take-over and great for the government because they’d get bigger tax coming in.
And hearing Bill Gates touting that GLOBAL vaccination is needed puts the shivers up my spine.

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Gage
Member
Gage
May 19, 2020 12:57 pm
Reply to  worthit

Worthit, i believe it’s actually chickenpox that can lead to shingles later in life, but that’s beside the point. I agree with you that vaccinations should not be required—this is still a free country, last I checked—especially a very new, little- tested vaccine. A person’s health is one’s own choice. If you want to get vaccinations, go for it. If you don’t, that’s your choice. I was in the Air Force and was required to get many vaccines to be worldwide deployable, but when I said no to smallpox, they didn’t push back. Hopefully, America won’t cave to forced vaccinations. That’s a violation of our personal freedom.

jgreen22
jgreen22
May 19, 2020 1:00 pm
Reply to  worthit

We have a measles vaccine because around 0.2% of cases will die. So do the math.

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worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 2:54 pm
Reply to  jgreen22

can you guide me to where you got your “0.2% will die from measles”
Prediction like the one they gave for this covid 19 virus, maybe?

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Travis Johnson, Stock Gumshoe
May 19, 2020 3:04 pm
Reply to  worthit

That’s from the previous surge in cases in the US in the late 1980s-early 90s, from the CDC’s health surveillance data.

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worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 8:57 pm

Thxs Travis, great as ever. Of course I went and read the article and true enough it does state that in US between 1985 and 1992 0.2% deaths occurred from measles….then I read on and found that BEFORE 1963 there were 500000 measles cases but only 500 deaths.
If I’m not wrong that equates to 0,001%? That was before the vaccination regimen started!!!!!!!!!

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worthit
Guest
worthit
May 19, 2020 9:26 pm
Reply to  worthit

another little point: it’s not clear that the 0.2% applies yearly or is an accumulation of the 7 years =o.2:7=0.0285% yearly

jwahlgren
jwahlgren
May 19, 2020 11:19 pm
Reply to  worthit

I am neither for or against vaccines in general. They need to be judged on a case by case basis.
I AM completely against the legislated irresponsibility of the manufacturers particularly with respect to contaminants.
However dividing 0.2% by seven is not how that math works.

Travis Johnson, Stock Gumshoe
May 20, 2020 9:08 am
Reply to  worthit

Yes, they estimate that the death rate was about 0.1% — but could be much lower, since the denominator is probably larger than the 500,000 they estimate because so many people got Measles in the pre-vaccine years (the death count, likewise, is an estimate). It’s a horrible disease, though not a super-huge death rate (avoiding death, particularly among children, is of course a huge benefit — but cutting the death rate of an illness is not the only goal).

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jgreen22
jgreen22
May 20, 2020 12:04 pm
Reply to  worthit

Just so you know where I am coming from, I am an ICU doc in practice. Peoples poor health choices and bad decision making makes up a substantial part of my practice. So arguing for vaccines runs against my financial self interest. Skip the flu shot and end up in my ICU by all means. The hospital will send you my practices bill. ICU docs learn not to judge all the poor choices that result in your presence in our ICUs.

But I do have a social responsibility to state publicly state, “GET YOUR VACCINES.” Get all your vaccines. Yes none are perfect, some have side effects and none offers perfect protection. Do not let your immune system get bored, that gets ugly.

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Janet James
Member
Janet James
May 27, 2020 8:18 pm
Reply to  jgreen22

Yeah. My kids’ pediatrician, who I loved, was also compelled to advise me to get my kids vacs. He knew I wasn’t gonna do it. We went through the drill countless times. He never harassed me, although he was a believer.
OTOH, he was there for, for example, hitting a moose at -33 and my kid getting serious brain injury. They had us in the priest room. He was always available at ANY time of ANY day or night.
Love that guy. And I didn’t mind his requisite admonitions or whatever to get the vacs.
We had an understanding.
Great doc. Moved with his young wife down to the desert.

jgreen22
jgreen22
May 19, 2020 4:05 pm
Reply to  worthit

CDC

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Investor Clouseau
Investor Clouseau
May 20, 2020 2:50 am
Reply to  worthit

It’s absolutely laughable that you asked for the source on this but cheered the baseless numbers in the TexasDanger’s comment above.

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Steve
Guest
Steve
May 19, 2020 12:31 pm

Has anybody read about the possible immune enhancement effects of vaccinations which could cause a disease to be worse in a vaccinated person? Shouldn’t we be leary about this rush to discover a vaccine, especially considering possible conflict of interests? The CEO appears on CNBC , not a news channel, to discuss his vaccine. Then the new vaccine czar makes a fortune selling his Moderna options.

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bmcm
Irregular
bmcm
May 20, 2020 7:03 am
Reply to  Steve

Yes, there is the small possibility that a vaccine could make your reaction to the pathogen worse. That’s one of the things they will be testing for in trials.

So any vaccine actually released will not have this problem.

No doubt, some fortunes will be made from this. As with everything. Someone recently pointed out (was it Travis?) that the press releases from the vaccine developers are aimed at investors, not doctors or public health officials. We must assume that companies will behave as they always behave, and investors likewise. This does not diminish the wisdom of getting vaccinated…

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newlife4.0
Member
newlife4.0
May 27, 2020 8:23 pm
Reply to  bmcm

You obviously haven’t read about the testing standards for this, or any other, vaccine.Janet James

Paull
Member
Paull
May 20, 2020 7:26 am
Reply to  Steve

: That’s why vaccines are clinically tested on a large number of people. An enhancement effect wouldn’t be missed. And that’s why a development shouldn’t be rushed. There are viable shortcuts, but you need to test a new vaccine on at least 10000 – 20000 people with a follow-up period of at least four months.

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