10 Percent Per Month

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schotanusc
Member
schotanusc

Having been a subscriber, never again, I was amazed at the number of trades that worked. 80% sounds amazing, and at 10% per month you’re doing great. Until that one month when you lose 90% of everything you have in the trade. To me that was the kicker, you’ve made me about $2000 over a 5 months, not bad. Then a $3000 loss hits. We were told that these things happen but stay the course. I tried that and it happened again a few months later. I was down about $5000 over those 7-8 months. I wasn’t really down 4K… Read more »

10ppm
Guest

As stated previously, we do not recommend allocating one’s entire portfolio in just a few trades. It is suggested to keep cash on the side for subsequent trades that take advantage of market conditions. If a subscriber allocates everything in the first few trades, they no longer have capital to trade with for that month. If those first few trades are losing ones, they have a loss in their account versus those that took part in the winning trades later that month. Of course they feel like the returns should show the loss they experienced but it is not the… Read more »

David
Guest
David

Lets follow your logic and assume that members should keep 50% of the account in cash. So if I have 10k account, I would allocate 5k for the 3 trades and leave another 5k for adjustments. During normal month, those 3 trades would make anywhere between 2% and 10%. 10% is rare, so on average, it’s around 6%. 6% of 5k is $300. This is what you would make on good months on 10k account. That’s around 3%/months. Not 10% as advertised, but still not bad. Then October 2014 comes. You had 3 trades that lost 100%, 50% and 25%.… Read more »

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10ppm
Guest

We do not make recommendations on the amount to trade with or what percentage of one’s portfolio to use. We do say that going all-in is foolhardy. Cash on the side is not at risk but also won’t earn a return. How much one decides to trade with and keep on the side is up to them. Trading $10,000 in a portfolio of $10,000 is very different than with a portfolio of $100,000. Which one do you think is over-allocated? We currently trade 3 positions (IWM, DIA and SPY). Typically, we’ll try to get one trade for each position but… Read more »

David
Guest
David

Here is another way to show how deceptive your performance reporting is.

If you add all monthly returns in 2017, you get 33.7% return. Again, 3% per month, less commissions and subscriptions fees.. still not bad.

BUT: lets add all credits and all debits for all 12 months.

Total credits: $5.02
Total debits: $5.75

That’s total loss of $0.73 PER SPREAD. Since the spread is $2.00, that’s 36.5% LOSS. Not 33.7% gain, but 36.5% LOSS per risked capital. Again, using your own performance page.

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10ppm
Guest

With that math, we could have a 90% return after 3 months! How? Try to follow along… If we had 3 months of where three spreads earned $0.20 each, that would be $0.60 each month or a total credit of $1.80 for the quarter. Total Credit: $1.80 Let’s say all of them expired worthless, realizing the entire premium collected so the debit would be $0.00. Total Debit: $0.00 Divide the total credit by the $2.00 spread $1.80 / $2.00 = 90% Your math would result in a total profit of 90%!! That’s absurd!! To put the aforementioned example into dollars,… Read more »

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David
Guest
David

No matter how you spin it, the truth is that you reported total GAIN of 33.7% in 2017, while in fact you had a LOSS in 2017. You got 5.02 credits and paid $5.75 debits to cover them. Are you disputing this simple fact?

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jerrick
Member
jerrick

Your math doesn’t work, as explained in the previous comment. Repeating it does not make it true. Need another example?: Let’s keep it simple and say we have just 2 trades, both earn a $0.10 credit. Trade 1 expires worthless, realizing a 5% gain on the $2.00 spread. Using a $100 trade amount as an example, this is a gain of $5, bringing that allocation to $105. Trade 2 is closed out at $1.00, realizing a $0.90 loss. This is a 45% loss on the $2.00 spread, bringing that allocation amount to $55. Add up the 2 new totals and… Read more »

David
Guest
David

You can argue how to calculate the amount on risk. You cannot argue that total debits is 2017 where more than total credits – which means 2017 was a losing year. How much losing depends how much was on risk on average. It is probably more than $200 since on average there are about 2 positions, so we can assume average risk of $4.00, not $2.00. Loss of $0.73 on $4.00 risk means 18.2% loss in 2017.

Again, argue as much as you want – 2017 was a losing year, but monthly returns shows 33.7% gain.

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10ppm
Guest

Even with jerrick’s clear explanation, it doesn’t make sense to you. You can’t just add up the debit and credits like that. It’s completely inaccurate.

David
Guest
David

Which part is inaccurate? If you get total credits of 5.02 and had to pay total debits of 5.75, YOU LOST MONEY. Plain and simple. My calculation of the loss was not completely accurate because I assumed $2.00 on risk. But the loss itself is indisputable.

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David
Guest
David

In your example, if the 2 trades are part of an iron condor and use the same margin, then yes, the loss is 40% not 20%. If this is the same trade, then you got 0.20 credit and paid 1.00 debit. Your total loss is 0.80 or 40% on 2.00 risk. If those are 2 separate trades, then your total risk is $4.00, and the loss is 20%. But the question is not really how much was the loss. No matter how you calculate it, if you paid to close the trade more than the initial credit. You have a… Read more »

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10ppm
Guest

Two separate spreads, not a condor. Total risk is 4 but you want to use 2 in your calculations. That is why your numbers are inaccurate. Now you want to use 4 for your first calculation but that’s also inaccurate since there were many more than just 2 trades. You have to obtain the result from each trade, not just add things up and divide how you want.

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David
Guest
David

Yes, but some months you had 2 trades or even one. But even assuming 3 trades, that’s $6 on risk. 0.73 loss on $6 risk is 12%. In reality it is higher because not every month had 3 trades.

But the important point is that it is still a loss. Less than I first calculated, but still a loss, compared to your 33.7% reported gain.

jowzers
Member
jowzers

I’ve been trading with 10Percent since mid 2015 so I have a couple of years of experience with them. There were some losses in 2017 but following their guidelines, I did have a profit for the year. David doesn’t seem to have a clue and is trying to confuse everyone. My first trade was a losing one and I wanted to quit the service immediately. After they answered my questions, I followed their guidelines. Those losses were erased and quickly replaced with profits! Maybe David put his entire portfolio on a few trades which turned out to be losing ones… Read more »

jerrick
Member
jerrick

Losses are inevitible when it comes to trading. Some will be more than you prefer but if you keep locking in winners, you’ll do just fine. 10PercentPerMonth has been very reliable to me over the years. I’ve been with them since 2012. There are some drawdowns but the frequency of winning trades makes it all worthwhile. Just stick with it and you’ll see your account grow as I have. I tried to read some of these negative comments to see if they have any merit but the complaints are more of opinion and assumption than anything else. Trying to make… Read more »

David
Guest
David

No merit? Then please explain how their own performance page shows loss in 2017 based on total credits and debits, but the monthly returns show 33.7% gain? Those are facts, not opinions.

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jerrick
Member
jerrick

Explained in my comment above…

jowzers
Member
jowzers

I admit, I didn’t follow the guidelines initially. My first trade was a losing one but I learned from it. I gave it more time, relied on their experience, and that patience has paid off. When I first allocated, I wanted everything to be used, to maximize my return. The loss set me back and I wasn’t able to open the subsequent trades they sent out that month. Since then, I scaled my allocations back, keeping capital preservation a priority. If someone were to continue putting everything into just 1 or 2 trades, they’re asking for trouble. Sticking with their… Read more »

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Terrance
Guest
Terrance

Grateful to have found this service. They’ve done me well. Compared to other services, they don’t have the volume of trades. Having more trades just ties up more cash and increases commission fees anyway. When condors are opened, it could be on the high side for fees but the consistency of profitable trades makes it negligible. Just make sure you have a competitive rate with your broker. Services that tout small trades here and there rack up the commission fees much more quickly. If a trade goes bad, these guys will close it down and not roll them into future… Read more »

JasonW
Guest
JasonW

10PPM truly is a great newsletter. I don’t like to write reviews but this service must be praised! They regularly open credit spreads each month. Sometimes they pair them with another to create a condor or just a separate spread itself. It depends on the market. When the market conditions change, they change their strategy as well. Earlier this year when the markets were having some wild swings day after day, they opened up some long straddles. This takes advantage of the volatility and they handled them flawlessly. One of them earned over 75% and another doubled! As soon as… Read more »

Jason
Guest
Jason

I’ve tried numerous online advisories and 10PPM is the best. Others have multiple trades which turn out to be a commission generator whereas 10PPM has just a few quality trades each month. Sometimes the markets have trading opportunities for the service to open additional trades. This doesn’t happen all the time but it’s great to see that they change their strategy when the market environment changes too. My portfolio doubled after about 18 months. I have since taken out my initial investment and am happily watching my portfolio grow without any worry of losing my initial amount. Defnitely a long-term… Read more »

Dianne
Guest
Dianne

10percentpermonth has been very patient with my endless questions. They are very professional in answering all of them to my satisfaction. The service has been a great educational tool as well. I only knew the basics of options trading before joining their service and am now very experienced with credit spread trading. When exiting a trade, their experience is very valuable. Instead of fighting the market, they close out positions in order to reset for the next trade.

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Gerald
Guest
Gerald

I’ll keep this short and sweet. Returns ARE as advertised. Just follow their rules, don’t over-commit trading capital, stick it through during the ups and downs, and you will be very pleased. Trades are simple to follow. Autotrade available with some brokers if you can’t trade yourself. All emails have been answered personally, promptly, and professionally. Great service all around.

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fprater67
Member
fprater67

I have had a very pleasurable experience with 10PerentPerMonth. They are very knowledgeable and answered all of my questions in a timely manner. Trades are solid and are structured in a way that not much babysitting is required for them. They manage each trade by watching the markets just in case things go crazy. If they do, they are quick to close down trades and protect my trading capital. The July 2018 cycle is going to expire tomorrow and it should be another 10%+ month!

marcy
Guest
marcy

10ppm gained over 11% this past month. That makes it 6 in a row! They lean more on the conservative side when opening trades which also applies to any exits, if needed. Most of the trades are allowed to expire worthless, cutting commission fees in half. Any trades that don’t go their way are cut lose. Trade management is stellar with an excellent track record spanning over 10 years. I’ve been with them for over 5 of them and what they put on the site is exactly what I’ve experienced.

mike pax
Guest
mike pax

they lost 70% in october. their results are skewed so do not believe them

Howard
Guest
Howard

great program. make money good. it work!

Tori
Guest
Tori

excellent service! excellent returns! excellent customer service! excellent all around!

Tom J.
Guest
Tom J.

I don’t see anywhere on the site where 10PPM lists information about their license. I have heard that they claim they are a “newsletter” which means they do not need to be licensed and registered. But a newsletter also has to follow newsletter rules. Specifically, they have to put out their newsletter postings the same day each month. Also, their postings can not be based on market movement. However, it is obvious that 10PPM will open or close a position(by sending out a newsletter posting) based on when a good entry or exit point presents itself. This in itself makes… Read more »

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Wilson
Guest
Wilson

Very simple and straighforward service. Timing of trades is amazing! Commentary on US stock market is educational.

Austin
Guest
Austin

If you started with $10,000 and got 10% a month return compounding for 10 years, you’d have $927,090,688.18 – just shy of a billion dollars. I thus tend to doubt the veracity of the claim implicit in their name. (If it sounds too good to be true…)

Debra009
Member
Debra009

That’s what I think aslo, forget about going back 10 years, in one year you would without taking compounding into consideration be up 120%. Using the simple formula of 10%X12 and I think I am pretty good when it comes to stocks and options and my portfolio has also been up over 100% twice in the past 12 years.

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mhuckabee1
Member
mhuckabee1

I’m interested in the real performance of this service. Can someone who has either autotraded with them or followed their trades over a span of several years report the real growth of their portfolio? Obviously trading costs eat up a lot with this kind of service but it seems like you would earn at least 30+% per year if you believe their numbers. What have people actually achieved?

Joe
Guest
Joe

Hello, I had been a client with them for 13 years. I had invested about $60’000. Over 13 years, there were some winning years, but overall I lost a third of my portfolio. So, I ended up with $40’000 after 13 years. I see above the ppm tries to blur the reality by calculating things differently and playing with how they present the numbers (average return and relative %, rather than hard $$$ figures). Looking very short term, you may get lucky and get a few winning moths in a row….but them the bad months come in once in a… Read more »

Torvey
Guest
Torvey

I haven’t used this service for years but can attest to their performance for the past 10 months. The results are as they state with the exception of brokers not filling orders for autotrade all the time. Mostly, all brokers get the autotrade orders filled with some failing. One that was successful one month may fail another month. It all depends on the market movement and limit order price. If a broker fails to fill an order, 10PPM will try again if the market conditions favor it. They won’t, however, chase the market just to fill a trade. They do… Read more »

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mrmrkt
Member
mrmrkt

The way the annual performance numbers are shown is extremely misleading. What they show is ‘average per trade’ per month, not ‘average on the portfolio’. For example if they have 5 losing trades in a month each losing 10%, they will show a monthly return of -10%!!! While in actually fact your portfolio would have been pummeled -50% in that month if you had had five equal weighted trades on the portfolio. They have no concept of position sizing, portfolio positioning or a model portfolio, which are extremely important in what returns are realized on the portfolio. The monthly returns… Read more »

Evan Cranston
Guest
Evan Cranston

No matter how they show their results, someone will complain about it. For the exact reason you stated, they must show the average otherwise 3 winning trades at 10% will show as 30%. As a long-time subscriber, I can tell you that 10PPM does not recommend how much to trade with. This is up to you as you know your situation best. They make no suggestion to position sizing or portfolio ratio and leave that up to you so claiming that they have no concept of it is misleading and inaccurate.

Evan Cranston
Guest
Evan Cranston

Overall, a solid service. There are losses from time to time but investing is a marathon, not a sprint. You can’t expect to have a fortune after a few months or expect every trade to be a winner. Some complain about losses but it’s options trading, losses happen. All trades are shown on their site, including losses. They are very transparent. The long-term returns are what one should focus on. There are speedbumps along the way for everything but if the service can outperform every year even with those bumps, they’re doing a phenomenal job! Don’t cherry pick one or… Read more »

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jamessko
Irregular
jamessko

This type of trading system is best referred to as “picking up nickels in front of a steamroller”. You see a lot of ads from Agora about how somebody with no experience made $688 in 10 minutes in a coffee shop or whatever (selling naked puts, it turns out). These folks can rightly claim that 95% of their trades are winners, and you will still lose your shirt eventually. The 10PPM option strategy is not so risky as this, but it is the same idea, as the testimonial from schotanusc so clearly illustrates. Read Nassim Taleb’s “The Black Swan” for… Read more »

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Angela
Guest
Angela

Very professional with high praise to customer service. Whenever I have a question, they answer quickly and it is very personalized, not an automated canned response. Majority of trades will succeed with rare losers mixed in. They make every attempt possible in closing out the losing trades. Sometimes a broker may not get it filled but that’s not under their control. My broker has been one to succeed and fail as well. I do not fault 10PPM for that. It’s just the market conditions at that time or my broker was slow. I currently use TDA and they do a… Read more »

Rob cornish
Guest
Rob cornish

Essentially they lose a lot of money in three out of the 12 months of the year. And some of the losses per month a pretty steep anywhere from 20 to 40% so 10% a month is actually around 4%, which is good but it’s certainly not what they advertise. If you look at the month to month performance and put dollars to it the costs after commission and subscription fees or minor

Debra009
Member
Debra009

Was thinking of signing up for this service but it appears that the losses might outweigh the gains beased on the comments posted here. How did they peform during the last 3 months especially from Nov 2018 to Jan 2019. I don’t mind selling puts but i only sell puts on stocks I would love to own

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jjbornwild
Guest
jjbornwild

Doing some basic math with their advertised returns data – it works out to be negative returns over the years!

Igor
Guest
Igor

More than 70% gain over the past 2 years. Not sure how some people do math.

Overall returns in the long run are great. Expecting wins each and every month is not realistic and real traders know losses will happen. Trying it for just a few months doesn’t do it justice.

Brad
Guest
Brad

Straightforward service. Excellent results. Long-term play…can’t jump in and out or “give it a go” for just a few months. Losses will happen but will have positive outcome over long run.

jayg2020
Member
jayg2020

Unless I am doing the math wrong, here are the calculations for each completed year 2014-2018 on their performance page at: https://www.10ppm.com/customer/customerMain.php?section=customer&step=performanceMonthly For purposes of this example you would be putting the same amount of risk capital into each trade each month 2014 – Total Monthly Gains +66.8% – Total Monthly Losses (-25.7%) – Net Result +41.1% over 12 months which comes out to +3.425% per month 2015 – Total Monthly Gains +110.8% – Total Monthly Losses (-16.8%) – Net Result +94% over 12 months which comes out to +7.833% per month 2016 – Total Monthly Gains +65.5% – Total… Read more »

quill1000
Member
quill1000

Interesting, thanks for the research effort. 4% + per month isn’t 10%, but it beats most money manager results that I’ve seen.

Mike
Guest
Mike

To calculate the yearly return, you have to multiply the returns for the months (if you average them, you underestimate losses: a 50% loss has to be followed by a 100% gain just to break even). For example, the return for aug-oct 2014 (+10.7%, +7.8%, -19.5%) would be 1.107*1.078*0.805. Then, if the full year’s return is N, the compounded monthly gain is the 12th root of N, i.e. exp(log(N)/12). Assuming I didn’t fat-finger my calculator: 2014: 1.262, 1.95%/mo (i.e. 26.2% gain for the year) 2015: 2.390, 7.53%/mo (woot!) 2016: 1.111, 0.8%/mo 2017: 1.327, 2.3%/mo 2018: 1.147, 1.15%/mo 2019 jan-apr: 0.9937,… Read more »