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What’s that “August 28 ICO” pitch from Martin Hutchinson about?

Checking out the introductory "will be bigger than bitcoin and ethereum" ad for Crypto Alert from Agora Financial

By Travis Johnson, Stock Gumshoe, August 15, 2017

“An entirely new digital currency will hit the net on August 28

“It will rapidly replace ALL current “crypto-currencies”… and then ring the funeral bell for the mighty U.S. dollar

“Profits on this new currency are completely uncapped (unlike Bitcoin)… and based on past modeling, I predict they’ll be 1,000 times higher than we’ve ever seen before

“Making this your ONE LAST chance to get in on the ground floor of the hottest market trend in more than 2,300 years… RIGHT NOW”

That’s the attention-getting promise from Martin Hutchinson’s pitch for his new Crypto Alert service with Louis Basenese, which is a fairly pricey ($3,000 one time fee, $199/yr maintenance fee) newsletter published by Agora Financial.

And I’ll warn you up front, I don’t know for sure which coin it is that Hutchinson is hinting at — though I’ll share a low-conviction guess with you after we roll through the clues.

The time is ripe for these kinds of pitches, of course, because we’ve seen cryptocurrencies skyrocket over the past year, even big ones like bitcoin and ethereum, and we’ve also gone from fewer than 100 cryptocurrencies a year ago to more than 1,000 now, with dozens more being launched each month as new developers try to get in on the frenzy or add something to the blockchain/altcurrency/cryptocurrency marketplace.

Hutchinson also claims credit as an expert on cryptocurrencies, partly as a result of the article he coauthored for the Cato Journal a couple years ago. He says that he “won’t bore you with all the technical details” of that article, perhaps partly because the article was entitled “Bitcoin Will Bite the Dust,” but I thought it was worth reading (and he has backtracked some from that assertion of late).

That article did wisely point out one of the problems of Bitcoin, the reliance on that network of miners to validate Bitcoin transactions, and the extent to which economies of scale (and an arms race in computing power) would pressure the system:

“Despite its success, the Bitcoin system is unsustainable due to a design flaw at the very heart of the system. The problem is that Bitcoin requires competition on the part of “bitcoin miners” who validate transactions blocks, but this competition is unsustainable in the long run because of economies of scale in the mining industry. Indeed, these economies of scale are so large that the bitcoin mining industry is a natural monopoly. Furthermore, there are signs that competition in this industry is already breaking down. Once that happens, the system will no longer be able to function as it hitherto has. Its key attractions (decentralization, absence of a single point of failure, and anonymity) will disappear; there will no longer be any reason for users to stay with it; and the system will collapse.”

And there’s some interesting info in the conclusions as well, here’s part of the sum-up about bitcoin:

“Even in the unlikely event that it survives into the medium run, we would still rate its longer-term chance of survival as zero. First, we should remember that a recurring theme in the history of innovation is that the pioneers rarely, if ever, survive. This is because early models are always flawed and later entrants are able to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors. There is no reason why Bitcoin should be an exception to this historical rule. The second reason is that in the very long run bitcoin would be uncompetitive against efficient closed-wall systems such as PayPal or COEPTIS, the successor to e-gold. Once the production of bitcoins becomes insignificant, then the Bitcoin system will entirely depend on transaction fees to cover its operational costs, and its fee levels would be higher than those of more traditional payment systems because of the need to maintain excess hashing and excess capacity to deter new entrants into the transaction validation business. Put differently, Bitcoin can never achieve the technical economic efficiency of competitors that can operate with a very small number of servers, or even just one. In the very long term, when there are no new bitcoins being produced to subsidize the validation process, the Bitcoin system will no longer be able to compete.20 Last but not least, there is still the problem that Bitcoin is not backed by anything.”

That doesn’t mean anything about the near-term value of an asset that is traded based almost entirely on sentiment and momentum, of course, and it doesn’t really give great insight into the immediate prognosis for any of the other cryptocurrencies — bitcoin was trading between $200-$250 at the time that article was published, during the doldrums following the first real run in bitcoin prices in the years previous (and many of the first wave of “me too” cryptocurrencies had already lost 99% of their value), and it recovered sharply over the following year and, as we now know, went almost parabolic in 2017 as the bitcoin price surged from $1,000 to $4,000.

Let’s get back to the ad…

“When you see teenage hackers with backward baseball caps start getting clued into the same exact tipping point as gray-beard economists with silk ties… and Silicon Valley venture capitalists… and Wall Street investment bankers…

“Even ordinary Americans like Jared Kenna (a beer brewer who made more than $30 million trading Bitcoin). Or Charlie Noble (who revealed to CNBC that a fellow Ethereum trader made a 300,000% gain in less than a minute).

“That’s when know that something must be about to happen.”

That scares the heck out of me, mostly because it’s the same thing that drove sentiment during the internet bubble in 1999 — and, frankly, that drives most bubbles: “We’re all making money because we’re all making money!” When a cab driver gives you stock tips about the next internet sensation in 1999, that’s scary… when the waitress talks up the twelve houses she bought with no money down in 2005, that’s frightening… and when the high school kid who mows your lawn tries to convince you to buy the latest initial coin offering for a new cryptocurrency in 2017, I can’t help but feel that same twinge of fear.

Sometimes, as we know, the “something” that “must be about to happen” is a big old slap in the face as reality hits all at once.

Reality might not hit, of course, or it it might not hit anytime soon, I don’t know — many of the pundits persist in predicting that the next debt ceiling showdown will drive the prices of cryptocurrencies higher, as arguably happened during the first bitcoin surge a few years back, but that’s clutching at a rational reason for things that have already increased by thousands of percent, in some cases, for no real reason. Maybe it will happen — the cryptocurrencies do tend to react to crises like gold does, at least recently (as in, they rose during North Korea fear last week, and fell during the return of North Korea complacency this week), so you can place your bets where you like regarding the next possible dollar crisis this Fall (or whatever the next crisis du jour might be).

What Hutchinson seems excited about here is the potential for this alt-currency market to become a “winner take all” arena… where, naturally, he’ll have chosen the winner:

“You’re talking about a toll-booth for every single transaction that happens, every single second, all around the world. And it’s all no sweat, because there are NO physical barriers whatsoever to one currency dominating ALL of it. And FAST….

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“… the whole point of a currency is that it becomes the standard that all other transactions are measured by.

“Again, winner takes all.

“That’s why your grandchildren won’t use ‘dollars’ to describe a big score.

“No, they’ll use the name of the coin being issued in this historic ICO…

“How do you make the best investment opportunity of the 21st century 1,000 times better? Just add a few more zeroes…”

The big pitch is that bitcoin and ethereum have been huge winners, but that this next coin offering will supplant both of those and the US dollar and become a ridiculous profit-maker… more from Hutchinson:

“… what’s even more amazing here…

“Is that there are still so many more zeroes on the table, by getting in on this next big ICO.

“Remember, if I’m correct that this ultimate digital currency will replace not only Bitcoin and Ethereum, but also the U.S. dollar itself.”

He even includes a chart that indicates the total potential for this initial coin offering is the “total value of all physical currencies” … so we can’t fault him for a lack of ambition.

And, yes, he does include the stipulation that this probably won’t happen:

“So let’s be real – turning a few hundred bucks today into the sum of all the money in the world is not going to happen for you. You are not going to literally make a trillion dollars from this ICO trade.

“Obviously you’ll need to set your sights lower than that.

“All I’m trying to demonstrate is how BIG this revolution in the world’s currency use could become… because this theoretically could all happen over the long run.”

The big sum-up:

“Because in the long run, only ONE NEW CURRENCY will become the STANDARD. (Just like the dollar did in the 20th century.)

“My research convinces me it will be THIS one. And the thing is, when I say ‘long run’ here, I don’t mean a century.

“I’m talking months, or even weeks.

“I know, that’s extremely unlikely.

“But we’re talking about history here. And the one lesson we’ve learned from history, across thousands of years, is that things do not stay the same. And when they do change – it always happens much, much faster than conventional wisdom says it should.”

So what is the actual ICO that Hutchinson is talking about here? I can’t claim to be much of an expert on the intricacies of all the different cryptocurrencies (though I do own small chunks of bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin), but let’s see if he drops enough clues for us to throw some guesses on the table for you:

“In an uncapped ICO, the early investors buy as much as they want. And then in the weeks, months, and years after the ICO, further production of the coin is sensibly limited to avoid inflation.

“Which means if the coin is in high demand, its price will then go through the roof!

“That’s why I’ve been searching carefully over these past few years for an ICO with totally uncapped profits….”

OK, I guess that makes some sense. You want the ICO price to be low enough and the future coin generation to be low enough that you stand a better chance of making money. That’s just logic, though, and there isn’t any one rule about how you price an ICO (since, for most cryptocurrencies, there’s no “there” there — there’s nothing on which to base a valuation).

“Since Bitcoin hit the scene in 2009, digital currencies have been something like a Catch-22 for investors:

“The MORE reliable coins tended to have capped profits

“And the LESS reliable coins tended to have uncapped profits

“There just wasn’t a great choice for traders.

“Until now.

“… that all ends on August 28, when this new uncapped ICO takes off.

“Why I’m staking my entire career on this ONE digital coin… predicting that it will RAPIDLY replace both Bitcoin and the U.S. Dollar… and digging into my own wallet to make this effectively FREE for the first 199 readers who take me up on it today….

“I’m putting all of my chips down on ONE new coin, and declaring it the swift & final WINNER of the digital currency wars.”

OK, so that’s certainly a bold statement. Which is what you have to make if you’re trying to get someone to pony up $3,000 when they don’t know you from Adam. Any other clues?

“I don’t want to bore you with the specifics, but the way this entirely new kind of currency works is that it puts a tiny fragment of code on millions of computers all around the world.

“And each of those computers has a different fragment of the code.

“Put them all together, and the amount of computer muscle devoted to securing this system equates to more electric power than the entire states of Nebraska, Delaware, and New Hampshire use.

“More than 19.23 terawatt-hours in total.”

OK, as a non-expert that pretty much sounds like most of the other clues in the ad — like it could apply to almost any cryptocurrency, all of which (as far as I’ve seen) rely to some degree on a distributed network of computers verifying transactions and monitoring the security of the blockchain. That is, after all, the point of the blockchain, that you have a distributed system where security rests on so many people’s shoulders that it’s almost guaranteed.

More from Hutchinson:

“The strongest mathematical models in the world imply that it would be impossible for this new type of security algorithm to be broken.

“This makes the new digital currency in this Aug. 28 ICO more stable than the dollars in your pocket – where we’re one Janet Yellen ‘taper’ or Donald Trump ‘tweet’ away from total mayhem.”

And one more clue:

“… the technology behind this new ICO even allows for the creation of ‘smart contracts,’ so that free people can make business deals without any lawyers, or brokers, or bankers, or regulators involved whatsoever.”

That was a big part of the selling point of ethereum, that it was effectively more of a programming language than just a transactional blockchain-controlled currency and could incorporate smart contracts and all kinds of other useful tools… and lots of other coins or tokens or cryptocurrencies or whatever you want to call them offer this kind of function as well.

So does that get us any closer to our answer? Not really. The clues are all generic and could apply to pretty much any cryptocurrency, particularly since so many of the new ICOs are based on ethereum and have that blockchain’s access to smart contracts… and the limitation of time could be pointing to one of the dozen or so ICOs that have been announced or are underway as of the end of August, or to the need to inspire immediate action for possible newsletter subscribers in an artificial deadline, or a coin offering that is underway and might end as early as August 28 if there’s a lot of demand.

There are dozens of possible ICOs that could match these clues that are now open or will be open soon, you can browse them at places like ICO Alert or TokenMarket or CoinSchedule, though there are plenty of others that have slightly different data.

And I don’t see any sign of one that stands out in those lists, frankly. So… I’ll throw out a guess based on what I’ve read of Martin Hutchinson’s work over the years… my guess is that he’s pitching what he has often talked about wanting: a secure, possibly anonymous cryptocurrency that’s backed by gold, and there is one such service that’s currently in the “ICO” phase and has a fixed token price so won’t inflate away the gains with ICO overbidding, (though they don’t use the term ICO): OneGram.

OneGram could easily not be the one he’s actually recommending, of course, this is very much a guess — and this one is a bit atypical in the cryptocurrency world, partly because it has its own blockchain instead of being built on bitcoin or ethereum’s blockchain (most new coins are based on ethereum), but they do say that their blockchain is based on successful parts of bitcoin and other systems.

OneGram is essentially a way to buy expensive gold and get an uncertain cryptocurrency for your trouble — they indicate that each coin is backed by a gram of gold, and that you buy the coin with gold (using their own brokerage only, GoldGuard, and after adding a premium/fee of something like 10%). They say that they will finish the token sales when they hit their limit or in about 38 days, but at this point they’ve sold about 2/3 of the available tokens so they may well hit the limit around August 28, I have no idea.

I also don’t know anything about GoldGuard, or what other fees they might charge. The appeal here, as I understand it, is that they will try to turn this into a real cryptocurrency that is used for transactions, and that the transaction fee they charge (2% or so, presumably) will be rolled back into the asset base, adding marginally more gold to the value of each OneGram token over time. Assuming, of course, that there are a meaningful number of transactions.

And the promise, which is appealing, is that the downside is limited because of that gold backing — since they actually have the gold in a vault somewhere, the coins are not likely to trade for a lot less than the value of the gold they represent… so perhaps if gold goes up in value and a gram is worth twice as much in a year as it is today, your token will rise in value as well.

I can see the appeal of that, but I have no idea how the market will take it. The only real point in trading in these wild west cryptocurrencies, unless you want to make it your life’s work to really become an expert on all the underlying technology and pick winners and losers (I’m not qualified for that, perhaps you are), is that they might surge by 1,000% and reward you amply for the risk you’re taking… so will this seemingly lower-risk gold-backed currency end up rising less because the price of gold acts more as an anchor than a foundation… or will crazy cryptocoin traders bid it up regardless of the underlying gold value? You’d need a couple PhD’s in psychology to predict how it will play out, I expect, and even then you’re guessing.

OneGram is also, by the way, a project based in the Middle East and backed by some big investors there, with the focus of their launch as a transactional currency likely to be the various Gulf emirates… and the currency is designed to be Sharia compliant as a gold-backed investment, though I don’t really know whether all Muslim cryptocurrency investors are likely to draw the line at the same place OneGram has. I don’t know if that will make a difference or not in their effort to launch and gain some traction. OneGram’s website is here, should you wish to research it further, and it includes a typical (though quite short and detail-light) “whitepaper” descriptive commentary as well as a link to token sales, which go through Gold Guard.

So… that’s all the guesses I have for you on that front, I don’t see an obvious candidate for an ICO that’s currently being offered that has the potential to unseat bitcoin or ethereum, which are the established brands, (and the currencies by which many of those new currencies are valued), but I’m also pretty skeptical about the whole idea… I love the idea of the blockchain, it has the potential to be as powerful as the world wide web or email in terms of transformative technologies for the Internet, but I don’t see a way in which any current cryptocurrency holders really “own” that technology in a meaningful way, and it’s really a wild west R&D project — the only real world business that’s important in the world of cryptocurrencies right now is the business of creating and selling new cryptocurrencies.

Cryptocurrencies matter, and maybe they’ll be part of the solution of our constantly depreciating national currencies or the inflation explosions that destroy economies from time to time, but that doesn’t mean I can come up with a reasonable logical answer to the question “what should bitcoin (or ethereum, or any of the others) be worth today?”

And if I can’t at least guess at an answer to that question using a sharpie and a bar napkin, I’ve got no business putting much money at risk in it. Perhaps if you trust the OneGram folks and wade through the fees and think it will be worthwhile there’s some “value” underlying that token thanks the gold backing, but, well, on that front I’m just as happy owning an actual gold coin. I’ve held some cryptocurrencies for a few years, in relatively small amounts even after they’ve surged by 1,000% or so (they would make up about 3% of my equity portfolio if they were stocks), so I don’t think they’re pointless and I do think they’re worth following… I just can’t get past the fact that I can’t put a reasonable price on them, so that keeps me from getting my feet any wetter than they already are. I won’t be buying any OneGram, but perhaps I’ll pick up another gold coin.

Curmudgeonly? Dimwitted? Missing the boat? I’ve had much worse yelled at me across the cyberseas… what do you think about the cryptocurrencies? have a favorite new one that you think other folks should get excited about, or that you think Martin Hutchinson is peddling? Think they’re all junk? Love or hate your bitcoin or ethereum or ripple or steem or whatever? Let us know with a comment below.

P.S. Things have gotten crazy enough with the deluge of ICO’s that the SEC stepped in with a warning letter… and also clarified that these coins are generally classified as securities and shouldn’t be sold willy-nilly without regulation or oversight or licensing (OK, they used different words than that) — you might want to check out their letter here, beyond putting some worthwhile fright into the mind of potential speculators, which is healthy, it also gives a decent overview of the ICO world and explains some of the terms pretty well.

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PNGento
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PNGento
August 28, 2017 1:11 am

What I have to wonder…come 28 August, Agora will no longer have the hype ability. And, if they are being honest, they will have personally bought in…in which case wouldn’t they want as many others to get involved…which then will drive the price. So, after the 28th, might it not be expected they will “spill the beans” so to speak?

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alwayslooking
August 28, 2017 1:20 am
Reply to  PNGento

More likely next month Agora will promote another new newsletter for $3000/year with the inside scoop on the next big ICO.

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aqrobles
Member
aqrobles
August 28, 2017 1:50 am
Reply to  PNGento

That sounds about right. We will probably see it Wednesday on the Daily Reckoning email blast.

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Mark
Guest
Mark
August 28, 2017 1:21 am

Maybe it’s this one: Solomon Exchange ??

Solomon Exchange is going to launch its own ICO known as SMNX ICO and will provide a platform for users to buy or sell their choice of cryptocurrency safe and securely. Their instant transaction and exchange process makes Solomon exchange ICO one of the best in this field of currency exchange. The Solomon Exchange ICO token sale will be starting from 28th august 2017 and is one of the most anticipated digital currency exchange program.

Chris N.
Guest
Chris N.
August 28, 2017 9:31 am
Reply to  Mark

I think the email I received from Agora today really proves it is chrono.logic. “The FIRST cryptocurrency whose value is based on time rather than on the conventional “mining” solution of mathematical problems.” “??? was developed by a team led by former goldman sachs venture capatalist.” The only thing that seems off is that it is capped, and Agora originally said “uncapped”. The ICO launched 30 mins. ago, and there is a 3 to 5 ETH min. investment. Stay tuned after noon today though as they may lower the cost of entry to as low as 1 to 2 ETH.

This will either soar or bust. It is something completely different for sure.

I am also looking at utrust and solomon.exchange as retailers will want some guarantee before they start accepting cryptocurrencies.

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alwayslooking
August 28, 2017 11:25 am
Reply to  Chris N.

Chris N. is correct about Chrono Logic being the ICO hyped by Agora. You only need to self-certify that you are a non-US citizen.

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sundog88
sundog88
August 28, 2017 11:31 am
Reply to  alwayslooking

Yep, totally possible (best to put a bit of skin in the game with ChronoLogic) and maybe NONE of the ICO’s we’ve been discussing are them? Let’s keep researching/looking.

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PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 12:44 pm
Reply to  Chris N.

Indicates as of 10:42 AM MDT, that the minimum is 5ETH…too rich for my blood. Anyone know of any ramifications if you were to certify you are NOT a US citizen…could the company withhold the tokens and not refund your money? That would be my concern.

manhattanmadman
manhattanmadman
August 28, 2017 12:45 pm
Reply to  PNGento

Yes, I would like to know this as well.

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gristinvest5
August 28, 2017 6:14 pm

Most people use an alt address to register or just wait till they come onto the exchanges and buy when they dip or right when they come out. It’s not illegal to participate but to be safe most of these companies are not letting US citizens participate or well you know what I mean. So it is not illegal to participate or to buy or to own. They just try to keep US citizens out due to all the US laws, etc.

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Chris N.
Guest
Chris N.
August 28, 2017 2:25 pm
Reply to  PNGento

I don’t have 5 ETH to throw at it either, but in the webinar this morning they did say they may open it up to 2 or 3 ETH later in the day, and I’m sure in a couple of weeks you will still be able to get in on it if it really was legit to begin with.

Anyone else gonna buy some Utrust or Solomon?

PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:39 pm
Reply to  Chris N.

Not chrono.logic. New email from Agora states it is fully legal for a US citizen to participate. This excludes CL. Think this puts the best candidate back at Universa (https://check.universa.io/-abJt63)…what do others think?

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PNGento
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PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:40 pm
Reply to  PNGento

Here is the direct quote from the email: “The 5: You’re not the first person to raise the U.S. citizen concern. The vast majority of our readers are U.S. citizens or residents; Lou’s recommendation is legal and accessible for U.S. readers.”

Henry Karani
Guest
Henry Karani
August 28, 2017 11:14 am

which is the best exchange platform for buying these crypto currencies without getting scammed off your hard earned cash. Kindly someone reply to kuruga04@yahoo.com

Chris N.
Guest
Chris N.
August 28, 2017 2:26 pm
Reply to  Henry Karani

NEVER send funds directly from an exchange. Use your wallet, such as Etherwallet or Exodus.

PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:49 pm
Reply to  Henry Karani

I’ve found Cryptopia.com to be one of the easier exchanges to navigate around, but am also using Kraken.com and Bittrex.com. However, I personally use Abra.com to get my US funds from my bank so I can get them into play…I then convert these dollars to bitcoin within Abra very easily. From Abra, I send the bitcoin to Jaxx.io (one wallet I use) and within Jaxx, I can use the integrated shapeshift function to convert the bitcoin, to ethereum, dash, zcash, litecoin, civic or a number of other coins/tokens. So, in summary, I use Abra to get my dollars into play, then move the bitcoin from Abra to Jaxx, then I either leave it as bitcoin, or change to another crypto, like ethereum. From Jaxx wallet, I can send funds to any exchange I have an account on, such as Cryptopia or Kraken…and there I can buy the newer coins/tokens. Problem with many of the newer coins and tokens, is that no wallet exists to hold them, so you are sometimes stuck storing on the exchange for the time being. Hope this helps.

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aqrobles
Member
aqrobles
August 28, 2017 8:12 pm
Reply to  PNGento

I also use Kraken (mostly), but for the big three (Bitcoin, Ether and Litecoin) I use Coinbase. Coinbase was the easiest account to set up. I would have recommended Coinomi wallet for your smartphone, but just coming off the Universa and Ahoolee websites, I see that you are better off with myetherwallet for these ICOs. Speaking of which track Ahoolee’s ICO progress http://ahoolee.io/tokensale/ and Universa’s progress https://check.universa.io/-3gMMHD#_=_

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aqrobles
Member
aqrobles
August 28, 2017 8:18 pm
Reply to  aqrobles
parkssloane
parkssloane
August 28, 2017 12:43 pm

So. . . . Which one is It? Where can you buy Them? Where is the price listed?

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Chris N.
Guest
Chris N.
August 28, 2017 2:36 pm

Just announced – You will be able to contribute as little as 1ETH to chronologic AFTER 3PM today.

Dman
Dman
August 28, 2017 3:27 pm
Reply to  Chris N.

can you buy from coinbase?

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aqrobles
Member
aqrobles
August 28, 2017 9:54 pm
Reply to  Chris N.

Still requires you to check the box that says, ” I confirm that my contribution is at least 5 ETH or higher and no more than 333 ETH. I understand that I will lose my contribution if it is less than 5 ETH & will not receive a refund.” I’m not looking to make a real ‘contribution’ , Chris. What gives?

bcaudell
bcaudell
August 28, 2017 2:53 pm

I found that One Gram is blacklisted in the US. any comments?

Dman
Dman
August 28, 2017 3:36 pm

Can I buy chrono from coinbase?

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sundog88
sundog88
August 28, 2017 4:06 pm

RE: Universa NOW LIVE – for those who want in NOW, here’s the NEW link for the PRE-ICO – https://icobacker.com/campaigns/universa-tokens/preico/eeH6LA – I’m waiting for the ICO –

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PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:05 pm

Latest email from Agora, states that the ICO in question, is, in fact, legal for a US citizen to own. So, any ICO that excludes US citizens cannot be the one in question. So, where does that leave the discussion?

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gristinvest5
August 28, 2017 6:25 pm
Reply to  PNGento

Still think its chrono as it’s not illegal.

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PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:06 pm

Latest email from Agora, states that the ICO in question is, in fact, legal for a US citizen to own. So, any ICO that excludes US citizens cannot be the one in question. So, where does that leave the discussion?

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PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:07 pm
Reply to  PNGento

So that excludes chrono.logic.

PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:08 pm
Reply to  PNGento

Does Universa still fit the bill? https://check.universa.io/-abJt63

sundog88
sundog88
August 28, 2017 5:10 pm
Reply to  PNGento

https://icobacker.com/campaigns/universa-tokens/preico/eeH6LA – not sure, heres their Pre-Ico link. Full Disclosure – I’m Not Investing.

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PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:13 pm
Reply to  sundog88

Ouch…minimum 2200 UTN at $10 per UTN…so, $22,000 minimum buy-in for pre-ICO. Even worse than the chrono.logic minimum. I guess I’ll wait on the ICO, whenever that might be.

PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:14 pm
Reply to  PNGento

If someone figures out how to do a group buy safely, I’d be interested in a “share”.

PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 5:15 pm
Reply to  PNGento

If someone figures out how to do a “group buy” safely, I’d be interested in a “share”.

Michel1962
Guest
Michel1962
August 28, 2017 5:26 pm

Any ideas about Bankera which is also lanching today?
http://bankera.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiKmn5-r61QIVQ58bCh3FsgehEAAYASAAEgLKqPD_BwE

Michel1962
Guest
Michel1962
August 28, 2017 5:29 pm

http://bankera.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiKmn5-r61QIVQ58bCh3FsgehEAAYASAAEgLKqPD_BwE
Any comment on this one which is lanching today as well?

gristinvest5
August 28, 2017 6:09 pm

It’s legal for all US citizens to own and even participate in most ico’s but to protect themselves they make you check the box to say you are not a us citizen at the ico. So I wouldn’t rule out chrono based on that. The wording is always funny but it’s not illegal to participate or own.

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PNGento
Guest
PNGento
August 28, 2017 6:15 pm
Reply to  gristinvest5

Sorry, but I disagree. For Agora to make the statement they made, I can’t see how they could do so as I’d say most US citizens would be uncomfortable accepting the ICO if they are forced to check that box. Not all ICOs make you make that selection.

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Barefoot
August 28, 2017 7:44 pm
Reply to  PNGento

Here is the deal with Agora if you pay the $3000 they will tell you the Chronologic ICO is August 28th but the strategy is to wait and buy the DAY tokens when they become available. Do some sleuth work in this discussion and it will be apparent that a few people here have read the report from Agora. And it is Chronologic

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sundog88
sundog88
August 28, 2017 8:19 pm
Reply to  Barefoot

Tough to say… but heres’s a good analysis from a different thread:

“You get what’s called a TimeMint, which mints (“mines”) you free tokens at a maximum rate of 1% per day (the tokens are called DAY). Think of of it as mining without having to do anything at all but sit and wait. Not all time mints have the same minting power (known as chrono power) though. The Time Mints have starting chrono powers between 1% and .5%. You do not know which power you’ll receive beforehand.

You can then sell that TimeMint to someone else after you accumuate 8,888 DAY tokens. (Done via smart contract).

If you get a TimeMint with a chrono power of 1% and load it with 4ETH, you start out with about 96 DAY tokens. However, after a year, you would only have 450 DAY tokens from the minting process. (This is because the minting rate, which starts at 1% actually halves every 88 days from now until oblivion).

So if you’re an average investor who can’t afford to invest like $20k or so and you’re looking to get a time mint and sell it, it’ll literally never happen. If you’re an average investor and looking to flip tokens, you can flip 450 tokens after a year, but then your timemint becomes worthless. You could potentially profit off flipping the tokens after a year because you’d have 4.5x the amount of what you started with, but you’d be banking on the fact that the tokens will be at least the same value they had when you bought them. They could indeed increase in value over time, but that’s not a risk I’m willing to take, especially since it would ruin the TimeMint.”

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alwayslooking
August 28, 2017 8:22 pm
Reply to  Barefoot

I missed the ChronoLogic webinar this morning. Can someone explain the relationship between a TimeMint and a Day Token? If there is going to be one coin which replaces bitcoin and the USD as the world’s standard currency, I would still bet it would be a gold-backed cryptocoin. I do not see the Day Token being in widespread use soon. The proof of concept projects are scheduled for next year.

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Chris n
Guest
Chris n
August 28, 2017 7:19 pm

I Suspect that agora had a plan to broker this where they may have some territory outside of the usa, and maybe they buy on your behalf. TECHnically, no us citizen can buy an ico.. but that is on the honor system. never send crypto from an exchange. use a wallet like exodus or etherwallet.

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gristinvest5
August 28, 2017 7:37 pm

It could be universa but who knows? I haven’t came across many lately at all that don’t make that box to be checked though. I guess the ICO backer for 22k is the only way to participate with universa? You can’t directly at their website. Maybe they will lower that amount before the 3 days is up.

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aqrobles
Member
aqrobles
August 28, 2017 8:29 pm

Alwayslooking. What is your take on Ahoolee coming so slow out of the gate? http://ahoolee.io/tokensale/ At 18 hours they are still less than 1% to their original goal of 30,300 Eth. They just changed to a 2900 ‘soft target’ so they could say they were at 9% – ouch! Fire their ICO manager.

alwayslooking
August 28, 2017 8:45 pm
Reply to  aqrobles

Ahoolee had very little pre-ICO marketing. The only reason I discovered it was due to the Agora hype about an August 28 ICO. However, I think Ahoolee’s goal of a global search engine for lowest price for a product is a great idea, and it should not take much technological innovation to get there. But raising only 281 ETH in 18 hours is a very poor showing.

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Dwayne
Member
Dwayne
August 28, 2017 10:11 pm
Reply to  alwayslooking

I sent a little bit EARLY this morning to 2 different ones: Ahoolee and Solomon. Then a little later, I sent some to uTrust. Then this afternoon, I sent some to Chrono. Out of the 4, the ONLY one that has acknowledged my transaction is Solomon. The other 3 – nothing. In the case of Ahoolee, they were stuck on low numbers most of the day, so I suspect that their results are better than it looks and they are having technical issues. If mine hasn’t shown up, there must be others as well.

andysurg
August 29, 2017 11:50 am
Reply to  Dwayne

looked at Solomon – looks like a scam from Virgin Islands (?) bad website and white paper + shaky plan ..

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ian s
ian s
August 28, 2017 8:48 pm

Money is a confidence trick. You can demonstrate this by putting a wad of banknotes in your pocket and boarding an international flight. When you arrive the taxi driver won’t accept the notes for payment. Nothing has happened to the domestic value of your notes. It is just on the street at your destination there is no confidence that accepting your note will enable the holder to exchange it readily for goods.

It was also true to an extent about gold coins. A monarch could stamp a value on a gold disk with his head on it, needless to say a value higher than the scrap value of the gold it contained. Take that coin out of his realm and the writing has no value, but a merchant in another country would take it as payment, but based only on its weight.

The value of a crypto currency depends only on what real goods sellers will exchange for one unit. The more crypto currencies there are the less universally accepted any of them become. That is a direct threat to their value. worse still is that they become a craze or a fad, bought with irrational expectations of profit. Anyone want a black tulip?

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Robert in Vancouver
Member
Robert in Vancouver
August 28, 2017 9:24 pm

I’ve got 500 tulip bulbs to sell for only $3,000.00 each. That’s a great deal and it’s below market value! Insiders say they are going up to $100,000.00 each in a few days! Now just substitute bit-coins for tulip bulbs and you’ll see how gullible you have to be to buy a crypto-currency.

aqrobles
Member
aqrobles
August 28, 2017 11:09 pm

The myth of ruin attached to the Tulip Mania is accepted as gospel. The reality is that many fortunes were made and that Tulips stimulated commerce. Remember it wasn’t just the Dutch trading among themselves, a lot of money came in from abroad. Even after the Crash people (mostly Dutch people) were still making fortunes in the tulip trade, its just that the prices were more reasonable afterwards. http://www.artistsandart.org/2011/04/tulipmania-and-dutch-golden-age.html People will make fortunes in the run-up to the crash and after the crash – look at the bond market (pieces of paper with promises to pay money to the holder)!

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wiredawg2014
Irregular
August 28, 2017 11:12 pm

LOL…but dang…there’s all kinds of interest with the mysterious crypto-c. Just look at the response here…”Tulips”…I agree with the reference…but it’s like the lotto…can’t win-it, if you ain’t-in-it. LOL

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alpha2
August 29, 2017 1:19 am

For those who are thinking of using Coinbase to start investing in crypto here is an article about their customer service.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/6v1t4r/coinbase_im_a_very_frustrated_customer_heres_my/
I have used Coinbase for about 2 years and all transactions have been ok but I withdrew all to a hard wallet just before the Bitcoin/Bitcoin Cash split and the latest surge. It may well be that they are simply overwhelmed by new business. However, I never had occasion to need customer service.

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Kiwikid
Guest
Kiwikid
August 29, 2017 2:31 am

Just to throw a curve ball in here and admit I am new to digital currencies, the Agora article mentions Mark Cuban backing a cryptocurrency, a quick Google brings up Unikrn associated with epsorts betting platform. Now that makes sense.

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