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“A Gold Royalty with a 10% Yield On Deck” (Dan Ferris)

Checking in on the Extreme Value teaser pitch of "a tiny resource company in Canada" that "reached a deal that will boost its cash flow 10-fold" -- also intro'd by a Steve SJuggerud email as the "No. 1 Income Stock of the Next 5 Years."

By Travis Johnson, Stock Gumshoe, August 16, 2014

I hate to continue to write about this small company with great frequency, since it smacks of “talking my book” (it’s a major personal holding), but we have received a lot of questions from readers today about Dan Ferris’ latest pitch, so we’re re-running our previous free article about this one.

Last time around, it was teased as a “Classic Extreme Value” and the “next great royalty company”, and a lot of that language is still in the ad, but they are also mailing it this week with the promise that it’s “A gold royalty with a 10% yield on deck” and a “low-risk double in resources.” It’s not really a gold royalty company, though they do own minority stakes in some gold royalty firms and might eventually earn some gold royalties themselves many years in the future, it’s primarily a thermal coal, potash, nickel and iron ore royalty company.

What follows is our article from April 30, it has not been updated or revised but the story is still much the same other than the fact that the deal to acquire their large royalty portfolio has closed, they have booked the first couple days of cash flow on those royalties, and next quarter will be dramatically different in terms of incoming cash as those royalties are on the books for the full quarter. It’s hard to judge reasons for movement in this stock, but it is somewhat depressed lately probably because their iron ore project and core future royalty, run by former subsidiary Alderon, has not yet completed project financing, and because potash prices continue to be soft. I continue to hold the stock and haven’t bought or sold any shares recently.

——from April 30, 2014——-

“One of the best resource companies I’ve ever found is about to close its most lucrative deal ever. This pending transaction could help you make the safest 400% of your lifetime

“A few years ago, this company turned a $650,000 investment into over $200 million. It spent $2 million on a project now worth over $50 million. And it’s about to close its biggest deal yet… boosting its cash stream 10x. Buy shares immediately.”

That’s the teaser pitch from Dan Ferris at Extreme Value — and I tend to like his stuff, so it caught my eye (and he’s got the mighty Stansberry email marketing machine behind him, so it caught a lot of your eyes, too).

Emailed marketing pitches like this are always pretty aggressive — they wouldn’t get your attention otherwise — but Dan Ferris is a value guy who usually couches his language at least a little bit, so you can really sense his love of this stock shining through … here’s some more from the intro:

“Something remarkable happened at the very end of last year.

“A company I’ve followed for years reached a deal that will boost its cash flow 10-fold… practically overnight.

“I’ve previously made gains of 44% with this company. I’ve toured their facilities. The CEO even gave me his personal cell phone number and told me to call anytime.

“And before this deal… It was already a “best-in-class” company – the only kind I like to recommend…

“This tiny stock is – by far – one of the best opportunities in the natural resource sector I’ve seen in my entire career.

“It’s a stock you absolutely must buy if you believe that all the money the Fed is printing is going to eventually lead to higher costs and inflation.”

Well, we’ve been expecting inflation to show up at some point — it sure ain’t here now, but we keep expecting it … so what is the stock Ferris is pitching?

He calls it the “Next Great Royalty Company” … which, combined with the fact that they made a recent deal to boost their cash flow 10-fold, means that I and most of the Irregulars will know who it is. Shall we drag out the suspense a little longer?

Ferris explains his take on royalty companies for us:

“I’m not sure how much you know about the precious metals business, but probably the best way to make money in this industry is not as an explorer… or producer.

“Instead, it’s to get a foothold on profitable mining royalties.

“The way it works is, several smart geologists and investors buy up the “royalty rights” to some of the world’s most productive and lucrative mines.

“And get this: These guys don’t do any digging, production, or actual mining… they simply get paid lucrative ‘royalties’ as the metals come out of the ground. It’s an incredibly simple and lucrative business.”

And I pretty much agree with that — mining is a lousy business, but if you can generate future royalties and keep your costs contained the little corner of the mining market that we call royalty or streaming companies can be plenty lucrative.

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He gives a few examples of the huge returns this company has generated in the past decade or so:

  • “A few years ago this company made a $2 million investment in iron ore. That investment is worth over $52 million today, a 2,500 % gain. And that doesn’t include an estimated $700 million in royalties over the life of the mine.
  • “From 2003-2005, the company spent $650,000 on a uranium-producing site. In 2010 it sold the uranium asset for $210 million – a gain of 32,000%. And it still holds a royalty on every ounce of uranium produced at the site.
  • “It paid $14 million for a Canadian property that has since paid out $20 million in cash – and will keep on paying $3 million a year or more for the next 15 years. All told, I estimate it will collect more than five times its original investment.”

And a few more clues:

“[Royalty] companies typically pay huge sums for royalties on mines that are already producing, or about to start.

“The next great royalty company usually pays next to nothing for its royalty stakes. Instead, it trades its knowledge to the big miners for a cut of their sales….

“… this company is not just interested in gold. Although it will profit tremendously from a gold rebound, it gets its royalty income from base metals like nickel and other natural resources.

“It also has investments in uranium, platinum, and palladium….

“… has just acquired some even more valuable royalty streams – royalties tied to the most basic components of modern society, like food and electricity.”

And yes, we then get to the “Christmas Eve Surprise” that brought this company to the attention of many investors, and drove the price up by about 50% in a matter of weeks (it has come down some since) …

“Five years ago, when the markets were crashing all around, this company was sitting on more than $100 million of cash in the bank. Plus it had millions of dollars of royalties coming in every year to pay its bills.

“Executives sat down and made a list of the assets they’d most like to own (at the right price).

“They’re about to get one of their top three in a single deal that could double this company’s share price (or more) in the next few years.

“They recently made an incredible deal. There were multiple parties involved, and it took months to pull together behind the scenes before an agreement was reached – just before everyone headed home for Christmas.”

OK, I won’t hold out any longer — and frankly, the clues kept rolling in, so I imagine most of you could have figured out this one without me (the ad is here if you want to go check the clues on your own or get more of Ferris’ take … it’s OK, we’ll wait).

Dan Ferris says they are turning their $5 per share in cash into new assets that he thinks will be worth more than $14 per share based on those new steady royalties they’re acquiring in coal and potash … so yes, this is our old friend Altius Minerals (ALS in Toronto, ATUSF on the pink sheets).

And as coincidence would have it, Ferris’ ad started circulating over the weekend … and I last wrote about Altius for the Irregulars in the Friday File on, well, Friday. Three days ago. So I’ll just share with you a piece of my commentary in that article.

The short version is that I own Altius, I first learned about it from a Dan Ferris teaser about five years ago and have held and bought several times since, and they did indeed make a transformative deal on Christmas Eve that’s expected to close next month.

That deal was largely for a large portfolio of currently producing royalties in coal and potash in Western Canada, all of which are on very long-lived mines with (usually) at least several decades of reserves, royalties that have generated close to $30 million a year in recent years… and those royalties mean that even though the company is taking on some debt (assuming the deal closes) and losing it’s big cash cushion with this deal, Altius can now for the first time be valued just on next year’s cash flow at pretty close to where it’s trading now, even without taking account of what I had previously considered their largest asset (the 3% gross royalty on the future Kami iron ore mine), and without really considering that this management team probably deserves a nice premium price for their long term success.

Here’s a taste of what I wrote to the Irregulars on Friday … I own the stock, I end up liking them more every time I look at them so I’ve been nibbling every few months for a while and bought a little more on Friday, and the value is still based to a large degree on commodity prices (and on the deal actually closing), but I was perhaps a bit more conservative in my comments than he was in the teaser pitch:

******Friday File excerpt from March 21******

And the reason Altius came up for reader questions, aside from the fact that the shares have been falling in the last few weeks, is that Altius just reported their quarterly results. Those quarterly results aren’t usually a reason for Altius to do much (another reason why I like it as a core investment), but it’s usually worth taking a look — and there was actually a bit of news hiding in there.

The news was relatively minor — aside from the fact that they still expect their new royalty acquisition deal (the one they announced on Christmas Eve) to close at the end of next month. There is no news yet as to whether the operator of the Genesee generating plants will exercise its right of first refusal on that particular royalty (that’s the biggest royalty in the deal), but an an Ontario pension fund has exercised its right to force Altius to buy all of the Carbon Development Portfolio assets, so instead of buying half for $21 million they’re buying the whole thing — primarily a growth platform for future potential coal and potash royalties — for $42 million. Assuming that the Genesee royalty stays in the deal, the total for everything is about $280 million. That makes the immediate deal look slightly less attractive, since the Carbon Development Portfolio is not a current cash flowing portfolio, but it does give more future potential in exploration projects that could be partnered or extensions to existing mines that could be sold in exchange for future royalties, exactly the kind of thing Altius is good at doing if you give them enough time.

And, still assuming that the Genesee royalty stays, the total average royalty cash flow for the new Altius should be in the neighborhood of $30 million (that’s the low end of average over the last four years, including Altius’ Voisey’s Bay royalty). If we assume that their corporate costs/overhead stay in the neighborhood of $3 million per year, which has been fairly consistent (not counting gains or losses on investments, just the actual cash flow that the company consumes to keep operating), then that means effectively $27 million in EBITDA per year at no cost.

Even if we assume no growth in production or in commodity prices, that royalty portfolio — which is all long-lived, most of the mines have at least 20 years and some up to 70 years of reserves — could reasonably be worth $380 million in a discounted cash flow model (10% discount rate). Remember, these are pretty stable royalties — the coal ones are tonnage based coal royalties for power plants that are at the mine mouth, the coal price doesn’t matter … and the potash royalties for mines run by the big three potash operators in Canada, and potash is showing some signs of bottoming out at $300 (it’s right around five year lows now, largely because of fears that the Eastern Europe potash cartel was breaking up and could crush prices by boosting production … that cartel, the Belarus/Uralkali group, shows some signs of getting back in sync). That doesn’t mean the royalties are guaranteed to stay in this range, but they’re a lot more stable than some.

They also have just over $100 million in outside investments (primarily in Alderon Iron Ore, the Kami mine developer they spun off, and in Virginia Mines), so we can guess at a pretty conservative value of $480 million for the company based just on the producing royalties and publicly traded investments. They’ll have about $150 million in debt when this deal closes, so I think that would leave $330 million as a pretty conservative value for the equity. Right now the equity is at $370 million, so it’s not a deep value conservative bargain. (Those numbers are Canadian dollars, though for my long-term purposes the difference isn’t enough to be of concern.)

But wait — I didn’t mention the one asset that we had previously been thinking of as their primary and most valuable asset: The royalty on that Kami mine that will be built by Alderon. So that’s the wild card.

The Kami mine is going to be built, I’m pretty certain — they’ve ordered their long-lead-time equipment, they’ve made their long-term power purchase deal and the government is committed to building the transmission lines, the government is generally lining up behind the project (partly because of the closing of the Wabush mine in the same area by Cliffs, which lost them 400 jobs — Alderon could hire twice that many workers to build the mine), and they’ve gotten close to $200 million of committed funding from their partner Hebei.

There are still steps to take before construction, including additional off-take deals and project financing, but those are expected fairly soon and it’s possible they could be producing iron ore in as little as two years. At current projections and recent iron ore prices, the royalty if they don’t expand the mine (there are plans to double production a few years after they start) would be in the neighborhood of $25 million a year. Iron ore prices are down a bit, and there is great fear about what Chinese demand might be in the coming years, but as long as prices don’t fall below $80 the economics of the mine still look pretty good to me. The mine hasn’t been built so this is risky, of course, but I expect this to be Altius’ largest royalty in three or four years — and even if it is half of what is projected that puts Altius over the edge to be a very easy buy for me here in the low teens. Adding another $12 million in EBITDA should add another $100 million to Altius’ valuation even if you’re being pretty conservative.

It will be an interesting few years for Altius, but I think there’s a very good chance that the reliable nature of their new core royalties is being quite undervalued — probably in part because they’re more economically sensitive and China-sensitive and are for non-scarce commodities (or disliked commodities, like coal), but the modern world is going to need iron, potash and coal for the foreseeable future. Not as sexy as gold or silver royalties, but coal, potash and nickel are all at relatively low prices and could grow in value — which would substantially increase Altius’ cash flow at no additional cost. They could also fall in value, or the mines these royalties are based on could be shut in for low prices, nothing is guaranteed — but I think it’s pretty rare to find a company with this level of certainty in their cash flow, and margins this spectacularly good (they could feasibly be generating pre-tax earnings of $50 million in three years) … and as soon as they’ve paid down a bit of the debt from this new transformational deal and as soon as the Kami mine starts up, Altius is very likely to become a substantial dividend payer as well.

I think we have to use a little bit of optimism to be confident that the stock is worth C$14 today … but not a lot, just enough to accept that the Kami mine will be built and iron ore prices won’t fall more than 25% from here, that Western Canada will still require coal-fired electricity, and that Canadian potash is not too far from bottoming out in price and won’t fall another 50% in a price war with Belarus. If those three things are true, Altius could easily be worth $20 if it got a similar valuation to some of its royalty-owning peers (and Altius is, I think, a much more shareholder-friendly and more conservatively-run company than its peers).

Pretty much every time I write about Altius I end up wanting to own a larger position … so I’ll continue to put my money where my mouth is and I’ve added a small bit to my holdings today, I wouldn’t want to be an aggressive acquirer at these prices because Altius is quite volatile and the stock could easily fluctuate quite a bit and provide some bargain purchase opportunities in the future, but I plan to hold the shares for many years and I like it very much at this price. If Altius earned a similar valuation to Franco Nevada (FNV), the (mostly gold) royalty company, they could be trading at 30X 2015 earnings … I expect Altius to have earnings of about $20 million in 2015 (the possible range is pretty big, depending on their interest costs and commodity prices), which means there’s potential for Altius to be bid up to a $600 million market cap, which would be a gain of about 60%. That’s far from guaranteed, of course, and there’s plenty of uncertainty — but it’s a valuation that could be justified. Altius remains one of my top three holdings, along with Berkshire Hathaway and Apple.

[this article was originally published on March 24, it has not been revised or updated — though the Altius deal to acquire new royalties has now closed, and they have announced a secondary offering that could, in part, help ameliorate the need for debt for the deal]

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JayBee
Guest
JayBee
March 24, 2014 6:17 pm

Travis,
If Altius is one of your top three holdings, then where does Sandstorm Gold (SAND) rank? It seems like I have read numerous times that it was your top holding. Apparently, it has lost its top spot.

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JayBee
Guest
JayBee
March 24, 2014 7:23 pm

Travis,

By the way, why wasn’t this article sent out by e-mail? I only found it because I came to your site to see if you had written about Dan Ferris’ teaser in the past. In other words, I kind of just stumbled on this article. Maybe that is why there are only two comments.

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SageNot
Guest
SageNot
March 24, 2014 11:11 pm

Hi Travis:

Lynn Clark clued me in when I inquired about Dan Ferris’ teaser stock. As you know, Dan is extra conservative & a pick like this isn’t his cup of tea usually. Most of my 20 yrs on the Street was spent in the commodity markets & hence my interest in Altius. World wide inflation w/b visiting the markets soon, & interest rates w/b forced higher, the perfect climate for commodity growth.

Good Luck to us all.

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Deborah G Flynn
August 16, 2014 1:54 pm
Reply to  SageNot

I never owned a Royalty company so is it just share price appreciaton? Or is there a dividend or royalty payment? do we simply buy the stock and hope it goes up?

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hendrixnuzzles
March 17, 2016 5:59 pm

It depends on the company. Some pay dividends, like SLW which pays a stock dividend. But mostly it is a leveraged play on the prices of the commodity.
Long SAND, ATUSF (thanks Travis), S. FNV is the king but I am hanging around for more dramatic gains. Love the royalty companies in metals right now.

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KIm King
Member
KIm King
March 25, 2014 9:06 am

Does Altius Minerals Corp pay a dividend?

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CSW
March 25, 2014 9:10 am

Travis,
I don’t get it…Ferris says that it will increase from $4 to $14. The stock is already at $14. It’s been around $11 all year. Is it too late to buy? (And yes, I read your Friday file, and I know it’s a good long term investment at its current price, but I was inquiring about Ferris’ claim to “buy now” in order to see a big boost within the next month)

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No Doubt
Guest
No Doubt
December 25, 2014 6:53 am
Reply to  CSW

The Stansberry Clan republishes archived advertisement and articles to generate revenue.

vot4pedro
vot4pedro
March 25, 2014 9:30 am

Hi All

Can anyone share personal experience with holding/selling a Canadian royalty stock in a IRA and a regular trading account in USA?

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jonomalley
Member
March 25, 2014 6:29 pm
Reply to  vot4pedro

I don’t think there’s much of a difference. I hold TRQ and another foreign mining in my IRA account at etrade and they were bought just like anything else. (I don’t sell much so not sure how that’ll pan out. Would guess it won’t be a big deal.)

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optionsgirl
Guest
optionsgirl
July 15, 2014 12:48 pm
Reply to  jonomalley

Re: PG’s question and Jon O’Malley’s response:
I believe that Canada has an agreement with the USA, so that the 15% foreign income tax is not charged upon the sale of shares or dividends collected in A US tax sheltered retirement account in the USA (I’m not sure if the same is true for Roth IRA’s.) You really ought to ask your accountant or broker for confirmation of the above. Before that change a few years ago, I recall my broker automatically took 15% prior to releasing the funds from those sales.
Travis, can you confirm?

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Gary W
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Gary W
July 15, 2014 10:30 pm
Reply to  optionsgirl

Please note, this doesn’t apply to a RRSP, i.e. Canada’s IRA

Mario
Member
Mario
March 25, 2014 9:41 am

Which trading platform do you recommend for investing in Canadian stocks like this? I already have accounts with eTrade (due to work stock plan) and Vanguard (rollover IRAs from previous jobs). I can’t figure out what eTrade’s costs are. The Vanguard costs are a flat $7 per trade (buying or selling).

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jonomalley
Member
March 25, 2014 6:39 pm
Reply to  Mario

I recently bought ALTUS (for second time) and TRQ and etrade charged me US $9.99 for each. I’m guessing they charge 9.99 for any trades.

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 25, 2014 11:03 am

I’ve followed this company for many years so I was quite comfortable picking up a couple of thousand extra shares on Christmas eve when they announced the Sherritt deal, but I sold it all when it hit $15.70.
A mistake? Maybe, but there are too many unknowns here to justify the current price.
How the Carbon Development & Genesee assets shake out will have a pretty large impact on how they move forward and consensus is that China will roll over to some extent shortly which will no doubt bring resource prices down, maybe a LOT.
I have talked with Brian a couple of times since the announcement, and my feeling is that it will be at least a year or longer before they start to pay a dividend.
As you point out, this has a volatile share price (mostly because of the small float) and post-PDAC is not normally the best time to buy resource companies.
cheers –

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 25, 2014 12:48 pm

Hi Travis,
Oddly, I’m less concerned with the Kami project as it’s developmental, which is their core competence, and more with the sustainability of the royalty stream and their ability to service the debt they need to take on if resource prices drop substantially, especially if they get the coal asset.
I like management a lot, but they ARE aggressive and do sail a bit close to the wind at times. Did you hold shares during the “refinery” years? I did!
BTW, I also question your use of FNV as a comparable as it is primarily a gold & PM streaming co. and as such trades at a much higher multiple than those dealing in more mundane resources are likely to.
all the best – rick

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 25, 2014 1:30 pm

I do agree that it should be far more valuable in a few years than it is now; just not buying the current valuation given the unknowns.
I’m also aware that the coal royalties are based on volume, not price, but coal is facing a world of hate at the moment and a fall off in volumes is not out of the question. The Genesee royalty is the one part of the deal I don’t like. IJMO, but if the value is there then the right of first refusal will be taken up, if not then the prime beneficiary will be expressing, de facto, that the value being paid is excessive.
As for FNV, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Gold producers trade at a premium to base metals, etc. and thus so does FNV. I just don’t see ALS getting those multiples.

BTW, my two most recent “dividend” buys have been COS which has really solid support at $19, has finished their spending for now , (& because nobody else likes it!) and POT. Not much mention is made of the fact that POT holds a 1/3 stake in SQM which is the largest lithium producer in the world. With Elon’s “giga-factory” on the way, it’s a good chance that lithium prices are going north. I think this is a nice freebie that’s not in the stock price.
regards – rick

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arch1
March 25, 2014 2:14 pm

330 4HL; I think you are right esp. now is good time to hold/buy POT given current situation in Ukraine. May be good year for wheat growers in USA CA.

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tanglewood
March 25, 2014 11:06 pm

Hi Rick; Great posts. Is that the correct symbol? COS selling at $19.?

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tanglewood
March 25, 2014 11:32 pm

Rick; whoops, I think I found it. CANADIAN OIL SANDS LIMITED (COS.TO)

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Elliot
March 25, 2014 11:51 am

I wonder if this will settle down at all or if it will just keep going up …

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Sharon
Member
Sharon
March 25, 2014 4:12 pm

Thank you Travis,I will put this on my Travis watch list. Fidelity does work fine for pink sheets in an IRA. They actually fill Benitec w/o a problem, noting what others have experienced with pink sheet fills.

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arch1
March 26, 2014 3:49 am

Altius up 12% in last two days, “Gumshoe Effect” ?

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ockrazor
ockrazor
March 26, 2014 11:13 am

Wow that is an impressive effect. Well done travis. I was looking at Alderon as a play. Looks like ATUSF is the safer play

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jonomalley
Member
March 26, 2014 11:36 am

Travis any feedback on the BOFI recent sell off? It’s dropped around 25% this week due to a short article and Kramer blabbing about it being a bear in his lightning round. I can’t find any credible reason for it to be down so much. I bought originally back when you wrote about it from your Value conference. Do you see it as a value again now around $80 and 24X P/E?

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jonomalley
Member
March 26, 2014 2:25 pm

Thanks Travis. I bought BOFI at 48.96 and it was over $105 last week. I’m just wondering if the party’s over and it’s time to move on or if it’s still a decent hold. I agree with your thoughts on the industry. The one area I can see some serious advantage for internet banks is how long it will take larger national banks to unload some of their worse performing retail locations in order to remain competitive. Also I’m not confident the internet banks will have much of an advantage when rates are increasing. Once the big boys are paying 1% again for saving accounts, will it really be that compelling to switch for 1.5% or 1.75% at BOFI? I don’t think it will and I think their growth will slow. Anyway I’ll probably hold on and stay long BOFI just wanted to get your thoughts. Thanks again.

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arch1
March 26, 2014 11:24 am

POT is up$.57 so far today. I think wheat growers are watching news of Ukraine.

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arch1
March 26, 2014 11:39 am

Travis; What are your thoughts on AG sector? May now be a good time to look at nitrogen,phosphate,&other AG chemicals. I am thinking may be due for comeback. AGU MOS IPI ADM all climbing.

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 28, 2014 2:25 pm

I’m not sure phosphate is the most critical nutrient but I do agree it might be the most interesting investment; as you say supply is mostly from potentially unreliable places such as Morocco, Egypt, Syria. etc.
One interesting company I’ve been following (& trading) for about three years is d’Arianne (V.DAN). It is VERY speculative and a very small position for me but they do have a very interesting project with large tonnage and high purity. Still lots of hurdles to jump and probably a lot more shares if they move forward to production on their own, but I doubt they’ll need to go that far as there are lots of potential suitors for this sort of project if the resource continues to grow. There’s other (companies) projects coming as well in Brazil & Idaho, but the numbers look pretty good here. Currently trading at C$1.25 but really no need to chase it as it’s a light trader and can be volatile.

This is about as far away from my Potash shares as you can get!

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arch1
March 28, 2014 3:01 pm
Reply to  330 4HL

330 4hl; Do you know name of Idaho phosphate prospect & if is traded?
I would appreciate your info. Thanks.

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 28, 2014 4:10 pm
Reply to  arch1

Stonegate (T.ST) but I think their project is way behind DAN, too many shares, & I haven’t talked to mgm’t there, but chart doesn’t suggest market confidence!
Also, I really like Quebec for mining –

takeprofits
Irregular
May 6, 2014 3:59 pm

For the record, some of the smaller potash plays have the highest growth potential, in fact my pick of Verde Potash NPK several months ago is UP 99% in the past 3 months compared to Potash Corp of Sask. 2% in the same time frame. I have also had good success with advancing phosphate players and expect to write a column on my phosphate investments quite soon.

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Lulu
July 15, 2014 9:09 pm
Reply to  takeprofits

Myron,
still holding my T. AAA for long term. what is your take, if you have the time to comment.

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Vijay
March 26, 2014 2:17 pm

When & if they post dividends will the ATUSF holders get it?

TIA

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ockrazor
ockrazor
March 28, 2014 1:54 pm

I don’t have much experience investing in Canadian Royalty companies so excuse the simple question. What is the difference between them and an MLP. Or is a royalty company just like any other company and I am way off in thinking they are structured like MLP and their flow thru?

Thanks

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DeepDiver
Member
DeepDiver
March 29, 2014 3:08 pm

I believe Fidelity actually buys/sells directly on the Canadian exchange and just uses the pink sheets symbol. This is per their international desk.

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Frenchy
Frenchy
March 28, 2014 7:50 am

330 4HL (Ric), regarding your post # 8 and the possible provenance of the lithium for the supposedly gigafactory by TSLA. Have you heard anything about possible contenders for the graphite provenance part of it? The below SA articles offers a few contenders of graphite miners in Canada that TSLA could possibly chose from. I was wondering if you had any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2108313-going-natural-the-solution-to-teslas-graphite-problem?isDirectRoadblock=true&uprof=45

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 28, 2014 4:15 pm
Reply to  Frenchy

thanks Frenchy,
yes I saw that article.
I don’t see any real clear winners there, just a lot of maybes.
SQM is the worlds largest producer so they’re not going away anytime soon, but more to the point, I don’t think the 30% held by POT is given any value by the market.

Frenchy
Frenchy
March 29, 2014 10:48 am
Reply to  330 4HL

Thanks Ric. I’ll have to do some DD on SQM…

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330 4HL
Member
330 4HL
March 31, 2014 6:05 pm
Reply to  Frenchy

just to be clear; it’s the 1/3 share of SQM that’s held by POT that I think makes POT interesting…

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Irregular
May 6, 2014 4:08 pm
Reply to  Frenchy

I owned SQM years ago and made out okay but being the largest producer doe not necessarily translate into moving the needle all that much, made out much better with smaller companies. Sometimes exploration companies not yet in production attract more attention from the market than bigger better known producers. Discoveries are still the biggest stock price drivers.

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blufox
April 8, 2014 4:50 pm

I’ve owned quite a bit with an 11.18 basis bought from May 2011 thru Nov 2013. The main downside for me regarding their recent announced purchases is the coal as I really do not like coal as an investment. Since I am averaging around 16.5% annual gain over the above period I may sell.

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deepdiver
Member
deepdiver
April 8, 2014 5:38 pm

These gold and silver royalty companies are not MLP’s. They provide capital to miners and receiver a percentage of the miners output. Their income is that output times the current price of gold/silver. They are taxed as regular equities.

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magi63
magi63
May 2, 2014 12:48 pm

Along with Berkshire Hathaway and Apple. I almost died laughing……..

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takeprofits
Irregular
May 6, 2014 4:12 pm

The lesson there is that it is not always wise to get greedy, a company can be a “cash cow” for years but ultimately fall back to earth, best to take extraordinary profits while you have them and look for an opportunity to get back in on a turnaround after a bottom has been established.

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