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Several options trade recommendations per month, self-described as “conservative options for aggressive income.”
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I have been getting emails from this service for some reason, and after listening to the presentation I was worried that he had discovered the same system as I came up with last year. He does have half of an idea, but you all are right, spreads are a terrible way to try to make money, either in puts or calls. All they do is expose you to risk and decrease profit. What I have come up with has only one trade,which I do only on the s and p 500 and has no loss down to a 20 percent market loss. As of today I am up 120000 on the year with an account that started at 280000. It requires no learning, just rote execution of the same trade over and over. I have tried to make contact with someone who is a real player, including Wisdom Tree and Kevin Oconnor and another fairly large money manager, but to no avail. It is obvious that none of them believe that they have missed something structural about the market, and I can’t tell them what it is without giving the whole thing away. Does anyone here have an in with someone in the business who would be willing to open his mind just a crack to find out something new? I will get rich with this, but I want to cut some time off of the schedule.
Please take your self promotion to a different thread that people one will read on its own merit, not try to use a well read thread to divert to a self promoting ad. People have the opposite reaction to your intent. This is a credible forum with comments that are genuine and keeps readers coming, let’s keep it that way.
Scott:
Send me an email…if true our firm will back you!
So 4 years later, are you rich yet?
Ha!! No answer…
Would love to lean more of this method
Can I subscribe to a service you offer?
Scott I am willing to have a look at your “blind spot” discovery.
I will say Its possible and wont say it can not exist. A number of years back in Ontario Canada the OLG (Lottery Gaming) started “ProLine” (a sports betting play). Two brothers figured out something in the way they did their odds was way off. They did the odds in house or something (it was way off). These 2 brothers figured out something that made them millions. Nobody else saw that. You did not even need to know about sports. The OLG had to change it after that to only a $100 bet per ticket (store) and other steps etc. etc. Eventually the OLG idiots got professional help with the odds and it solved the problem. So anything is possible.
If this is for real and you say you do not have the time or the ability to get this scaled up for profit I will look into that for you.
Let me Know.
Steve Mladen
DiscussionPostsNow@Gmail.com
If what you have is for real you should contact Bryan Botterelli from Trade of the Day at Monument Traders
Honestly, this is the most genuine post you can imagine. I really have found something unique,and I really have no idea how to make any more use of it than trading it, which I have been doing for a year and a half now with significant money,as you can see. And I’ll tell you why it works; it’s because it does nothing like anybody else is doing, in fact mostly the opposite. Instead of being the card player ,I am the casino and instead of trading price I am trading time. AND,instead of losing money I am making money , every day ,whether my balance goes up or down. If you can find a way to do this, plus have the 20 percent safety margin this has ,you let me know right away. But I know I’ll be waiting a very long time. It seems to me that what everybody here is looking for is a way to make consistent money in the market,and so what I am talking about is very apropos to this thread. I knew as soon as this yahoo Jim Fink mentioned indicators that his whole thing was crap, because there isn’t one indicator that means a damn thing, and if you trade off of one you will lose money, period.. Ya know , Santo, that your attitude is probably the same as the others that I have tried to contact, disbelief and yet you are on a site discussing a system that can only win in one way, and that is following a trend, That’s not a system ,that’s a fantasy.If you want to make money in the market you have to do the same thing every day regardless of any indicator or the level of the market. Then you are taking advantage of something structural in the market, which is what I am doing. If you can beat 45% ytd then good on ya. (on half your money)
Scott;
If your system is so good, if you are making such good money, and if you are truly altruistic, why not share the system rather than attempting to pedal it like snake oil?
Well, if snake oil could make you 20% over the market that would be great,but like I said , I’m not trying to pedal it, I’m trying to find someone with real money behind them to use this system. Obviously I’m not going to give it away as it is the only true advance I have seen in the markets in my lifetime. The reason it works is because for some reason everybody in the markets has a blind spot. I spent 3 months on the computer every day in the winter of last year and after trying every combination on the lock I found it. I have actually heard traders on tv say that what I am doing isn’t a system ,but it is. They have just missed one important aspect. It’s very difficult to get in touch with anybody running money and I figured I would see who I could scare up here. You never know who might know who. Plus,this is the first investment board I have found
. Like I said Ed, 45% ytd using half my money. That’s 90% if I had had it all in,but the first thing I was looking for in a system was avoiding a wipeout caused by a black swan. If I only use half my money I can ride the s and p all the way to zero with a negligible loss. Since it will never go to zero ,and probably won’t go much under -50% again for a long while (1929 was greatly exacerbated by the allowance of 90% margin in stocks.Just go get a match and burn your money) At down 50 I don’t lose a penny. Seriously. I can chart the value of every price down to -50%. That is peace of mind. All I can say is that all of the info is out there. It’s like faster than light travel. If somebody else has it you can find it once you know it is possible. Until then you’re just banging about in a dark alley. Btw, if someone does get me in touch with a player I will pay a finders fee.
Scott – what is price for the ‘player’ to get involved in your system? In other words, what will it cost that person
to learn all about your system? A % of gains or a set fee? I might know someone for you.
Great, glad to hear from you Tony. I was going to start knocking on random doors. First, I want you to know that I am not exaggerating at all. Like I said, I can prove all of this with real money traded. Second, I have looked at the markets for what I trade and how, and I think you could run a billion on this before it got too much attention. Third, like I also said, this is not a trade and pray system , for any market move I can tell you what the results will be up to 3 years in the future. Now to the nitty gritty; what I am looking for is this. 2 million cash (I will accept a large portion of this to be paid out of gains, so no risk there) plus 2 % of future net gains, plus 10% of any business that is spun off from this idea, plus , if the market gets wind of it I get to go on CNBC (I hope the market doesn’t get it. I don’t know what the effect would be) ,plus an NDA. If you would like to see my statements from my account I will gladly send them to you. Thanks again, Scott
Scott, I have a very sophisticated investor that may be willing to look at what you have. He knows what he is doing. Even had a friend that had a “black box” that sold to hedge funds and was building one for him. Has access to millions. Can ferret out a fraud in a minute so will put you through your paces. Enough said here. If you really want to chat email me at s.haugh@haughlawgroup.com. Have vetted many investment ideas with him.
Scott
Scott
I would like Tommy retire from the rat race by 55. I am currently 48. Would u be willing to share your system with me for a % of the profits? I am a truly honest person and would not share it with anyone else.
Does anyone have an experience with this actually working? Making what he claims?
Yes, the program works, but the amount of money you make will be dependent on how much capital you have and how many contracts you trade at one time. In addition, we are very transparent, once signed up you can see every trade that has ever been recommended along with it’s ROI. If you would like to learn more please feel free to reach out, I’d be more than happy to answer any additional questions. I can be reached at dmyers@investingdaily.com, I look forward to hearing from you.
I am considering signing up for this coouse, but I have been scammed by others before. Does anyone have any advice?
Personally, I am a subscriber to ALL of the Investing Daily publications and actively trade Jim Finks recommendations. I am also an Independent Contractor for Investing Daily and I help new subscribers learn the program. You will NEVER be left on your own, we guide you every step of the way. I can ensure you this is not a scam and if you’d like to connect with me I can be reached at dmyers@investingdaily.com. I look forward to hearing from you…
I can vouch for what Derek is saying 100%. Jim Fink is extremely thorough in describing his recommended trades and the rationale for his recommendations. If an option is prematurely assigned, his people are very responsive in assisting his subscribers in “fixing” their problem. I am delighted with the service, support, and results. Kenzo
I subscribed to Jim Fink’s Options income plan almost a year back initially he send a few trades in the beginning. However, as times go by I never saw any of his recommendations coming in my inbox. These guys promise you a lot before getting your money. Once they cash your check then they forget that they have an obligation to fulfill their promise to their clients. Very few people hold up their word or promise. Most of then once the check in their account they forget to do their part. I sent Jim Fink several reminders but did not get any response back.
This is absolutely a false statement! New trades are issued every Thursday, in which we DID receive today and have been receiving. If you’re not receiving the emails you might want to check your account settings, your SPAM folder and ensure Investing Daily’s email is whitelisted. If you are still not receiving emails you can call customer service at 800-832-2330 or email me directly and I will verify your account, my email is dmyers@investingdaily.com. In addition, every subscriber has access to the website where one can see every new and old trade ever posted.
This comment needs to be flagged and this poster needs to be checked for spreading false statements about this service. Which competitor do you work for and share your details on OFI membership here so someone can verify your true details. OFI trades come out like clockwork. I just executed 4 trades today.
Could someone post or explain what is in the bonus – The Biggest Legal Loophole in the IRS Tax Code
Sorry, I missed your post. Did you find out? If not, please feel free to email me at dmyers@investingdaily.com. It’s well worth knowing if you’re a trader.
Derek
I do not subscribe to this or any option trading service but I do want to post my experience in option trading. Since 1978 I was a buy and hold, blue chip DRIP investor. Thanks to my nephew who taught me the basics of option trading I started writing covered calls about 10 years ago and have since expanded to cash secured puts. Currently, I make about $100,000 a year for a few minutes placing trades and several hours reading financial newspapers. So I can say it does work and you can start out small. To answer earlier questions about why investors sell their knowledge base instead of just doing it is simple, economies of scale. I can make $100K a year on my own, but if I could sell a newsletter for say $10 a month and got 10,000 subscribers that would generate $1.2 million a year. I don’t have the money to trade that many options. I am neither endorsing or bashing Jim’s program but it makes sense why he does it. And another point someone made was that the market wouldn’t allow too many investors is hog wash. The more investors in an option increases the Open Interest. What many don’t understand is you can have a perfectly good option play but when the CEO is led out in a Perp Walk by the Feds, or they fall short of expected earnings, or the FDA rejects the drug application, the stock can take a massive hit. You can’t foresee that. That’s why I trade options in ETFs. It eliminates most of that risk. Option trading is viable, but you need to do your homework and get professional advice. To the poster who only made 10% return based on Jim’s tip, call your broker and ask how well he did last year. The average annualized total return for the S&P 500 index from 1928 to 2016, only six years finished with a gain within 5 and 10 percent, according to LPL Financial. Jun 18, 2017. Study what worked and why, what failed and why it failed. Anyway, best of luck to all.
Thanks for sharing. Con you share a bit more on what option strategy you use.
Thanks, Mike. Really clear and helpful.
Thanks Mike for sharing your experience in option trading. What were the materials or option trading books that you used to learn the basics of option trading, writing covered calls and cash secured puts? Which trading services, newsletters, or important lessons you learned that had helped you making $100,000 a year?
I am considering signing up. Does anyone know if he is legitimate?
Yes, Options for Income is a legitimate service. If you have questions or would like to sign up, please feel free to email me at dmyers@investingdaily.com
Derek
I do not subscribe; however, have worked closely with several subscribers who are learning how to trade/manage options contracts. My unbiased comments below:
a) this is a legitimate service that provides regular option trades (2 per week)
b) explanations of the trades are detailed, both background on the selection and brokerage instructions.
c) this service generally selects stocks they see as undervalued.
d) from my observation, almost all ( > 90%) of trades are long-leaning (since they are undervalued)
e) trades are defined risk trades (credit spreads, debit spreads, iron condors, synthetic covered calls)
f) trades that are not expiring OTM (out of the money) for 100% win are usually rolled forward
g) rolled trades often require additional capital (due to widening of strikes or conversion of credit spreads to debit spr)
…. fyi – widening strikes increases risk
h) recommended action (roll or alternative trade) are delivered in advance of expiration
The comments above are facts to the best of my knowledge. The following comments are my opinions only.
1) the market has been in a 10 year bull run through Sept of 2018.. this has helped performance of these strategies.
2) the service rarely (never?) seems to take a loss and ‘move on’ always extending trades; often with more capital/risk.
– keeping a trade alive for > a year, multiple rolls to make a small profit might be good for statistics but IMHO not
worth the energy and having capital tied up
3) Many of the trade selections are in illiquid options underlyings. This generally results in less than favorable pricing.
– The open interest/volume in the trade recommendations is mostly a result of the subscribers, “advantage market
makers”
Summary – In My Humble Opinion — nothing wrong with service but anyone who wants to trade options seriously should invest the time (does not cost $$) to learn options trading strategies, trade management so that they can decide if following the advice of a service is good for THEM. You can always use a service for information and tailor it to your personal situation..
“Give a person a fish you’ve fed them for a day, teach them to fish, you’ve fed them for life”
WMD
Why sign up when you already make 100,000 a year Mike?
Be prepared to take over 2 years to get out of your positions once you stop buying, with multiple rolls to try to get even. I came out a little ahead over about 5 years and that’s with DOW up over 10,000 points. He claims 80 percent winners. Prob. more like 70%. Someone on his site once observed it was like picking up change in front of a bull dozer. Losers can be huge when chasing options that go opposite direction. For example, you risk $500 to make $100, goes wrong way expand risk to $1000, goes wrong way again. You just lost 10x your MAX profit on an option. Doesn’t take too many losers to wipe out winners. The other issue is he almost never admits defeat. Keeps on rolling losses into future so he doesn’t have to put a loss on books. Eventually you have 10-15-20 losers you have to keep rolling into the future. Thank God market was generally going up during my time with them.
I have examined the Jim Fink strategy and can assure you it is not sound. He sells 25-40 delta put credit spreads at 30-90 days til expiration. This creates a portfolio of all long directional plays and huge negative delta. This will work in a bull market until it doesn’t. He advises holding till expiration, which is a bad idea in itself due to gamma risk, and something most pros advise against. Your potential losses are much higher than gains, like 2-3 times. Eventually at some unknown point in time there will be a big to huge down move. At that time this strategy blows up and you lose more than half your account equity. Run, dont walk away from this.
Excuse me, in the above post I made a mistake in typing. The positions are large in negative VEGA, but positive in delta. The strategy will work well until a big down move happens, then it will suffer a huge drawdown. Max loss is way over 50% on each trade.
I read somewhere about selling puts and hedging with a straddle that limits the downside risk. However I lost the link to the advisory service that is promoting this strategy. Have you any insights on how or where I could learn more about it?
There are lots of options tutorials out there, most brokers have good ones for free for their customers. That basically just means you sell a put then buy a lower priced put to limit your downside if you’re wrong. Reduces both risk and profit.
I’ve not used Jim’s service, but I am an experienced options trader and since I was bored tonight, I watched his video. It’s pretty obvious his strategy is selling puts and rolling them if they go ITM. That’s perfectly fine if you are willing to tie up large amounts of capital and take some pretty large risk, which you need to, in order to get the returns he is talking about.
In the video, he uses selling puts on MS as an example, but did you notice he talked about selling 10 contracts? Now, MSFT has been up quite a bit, but even a year ago it was a $75 stock. Even if you had sold a 20 delta put, you would still be tying up a considerable amount of capital. And let’s say you had been assigned at $60, that’s going to require $60k in capital, or at least $30k if you have a margin account. It’s a significant risk for a single trade unless you are trading with an account that is well over half million. So not really a good example of a typical trade.
While I do agree that selling premium in underlyings that have a high IV rank is a solid strategy, it’s not going to generate the profits of the dollar amounts that he is talking about unless you take very large positions. There’s no free lunch; no secret sauce. People will buy options as a hedge and selling premium is a legitimate strategy, but it’s nothing new and the market is very efficient.
Finally, he seems to favor puts and that is great as long as we have a bull market. We’ve had one for 10 years, but if you are only short delta then you are going to get absolutely crushed when the market turns down. A good strategist would try to stay delta neutral, or close to it. But to suggest that someone trade options in only one direction is horribly bad advice. The market will turn, and when it does, you’re not going to think he is so smart after all.
That’s why it’s called speculation and those who dabble in stock equities are called speculators-whether they purchase stock outright or play with options. Yes, the market will turn–it has in the past and will in the future. Those investors who bought heavily into bitcoins learnt the hard way how the market operates when down swings occur. Mnay were wiped out financially. What these services do, such as Options-for-income, is to sell advice on how to invest. Tie up huge amount of capital in the hopes of receiving a marginal return. Of course, the trade could (and will) go the other way and you lose some, if not all the capital you invested.
John D. Rockefeller, the great oil and kerosene baron of the 19th century never invested in the stock market. He simply made his millions by selling a superior product to the consumers.
I’m sure you all know about placing stop losses on your positions, or at least alerts to let you know when price is approaching your strike price. I usually exit my trades way before expiration, especially if the stock moves in your favor quickly at the beginning, thereby boosting my returns (less time in the trade, and of course less premium too, but also avoid any issues with possible assignment).
Me and a small group of like-minded individuals have come together to form the “Dream Team” group where we all share each other’s pricey premium subscriptions. We also have discussions about trade picks and share ideas as well. Now we literally have access to every single premium subscriptions from Banyan Hill publishing (yes everything, even Paul Mampilly’s $10 Million Dollar Portfolio subscription service)! Currently, we are looking for other premium subscriptions from other publishing companies such as Agora Financial, Investingdaily, etc. If you have a premium subscription service outside of Banyan Hill and would like to join our group, feel free to send me an email at EFTrader2017@gmail.com to inquire. I am curious about Jim Fink’s Options for Income and Velocity Trader as well. I strongly believe in win-win scenarios for everyone. There is simply no way one person is able to subscribe to all these pricey subscriptions. Sharing is the way to go.
Thanks.
Do you have Jim option suggestions. I signed up for two years. It looks good how do we proceed?
George@GeorgeKeen.com
Hey EFTrader… no need for 10 Million dollar portfolio anymore?
hi.. homer here.. i have several subscriptions are there any in particular you would like to check out first hand… contact me 517 974 9969 homer i would like to work with the dream team.. thanks
Hi Homer, you can email me to discuss if you want. My email address is EFTrader2017@gmail.com
From what I am reading here, I don’t think Jim Fink’s services are any good, just like most out there, they are junk materials for the most part.
Hi EFtrader. I’m signed up for SimonSaysOptions, WeeklyWealthAlert and OptionsEDU and would be interested in sharing info with anyone who is having success with options. jimgkiss3@gmail.com
I just listened to his Velocity Trader spiel and it was annoying because it starts out “just a few minutes more” and goes on and one and one promising to give infomation about the method but finally giving only the offer to tell you if you buy into it. Grrr! I guess most will start drooling for those $18,567 profits a month or whatever figure and buy into it. But question: if he’s doing puts in a bear market, wouldn’t he reverse the strategy to profit more as it goes down more? It’s just the reverals that create losses then, if you get stuck holding positions as things shift?
I strongly agree with Janis.which by now I should know there’s always a catch.
I was a member for over 2yrs and just resigned my subscription . For the last quarter of 2018 the recommended rolls cleaned out my cash reserves. My gains were averaging 24% until then, and in 3 months it all went away and then some. Jim did not see the October slide coming and made no defensive recs during that time. In simple terms I’ve lost money at the end of 26 months. Why would I recommend this service?
Did he give you a refund.? , he promisies a refund ~
First and Foremost, Option for Income cost me almost all I had (95K) in just 3/4 months. I was up for 2018 and all went away starting in Oct. after having to roll every position which mean’s significant loses! As a result, I have no more cash to participate in many New Positions as a result. Their answer, all of a sudden, was to raise your reserve per trade. To late!
Second, I never made close to what the Marketing suggested (67k a year). I started slow and then went to 5 positions so that would suggest 33.5K a year. Never happened over 2 years! When times were good Income was nice but still got many trades wrong. That I understand but when you keep rolling just to meet their guarantee of being right 84% of the time made no sense (BIG LOSES and Capital intensive)!
Finally, they must have plants who would suggest how great they are doing? In addition the site is run like what I would imagine China is run like. Any question they don’t like are immediately censored!
Food for thought: If people are so good at what they do why then do the have to sell you their secret sauce?
Mr.Finch’s strategy pretty well wiped out my 25K margin account. I am a novice trader and followed the advice blindly. The 2 factors that are NOT plainly outlined in the strategy are that you are risking up to 10 times the possible ROI when rolling the failed trades and secondly, you should allow a 5K to 10K margin for every trade you get into which means a 25K account should never trade more than 3 to 5 of these trades at one time. I was doing pretty well with the strategy until the flash crash of last December. That’s when I got wiped out in a matter of months. Thanks for your comments. I wish I had seen it a year ago.
Jim Finks Options for Income will cause you to lose most of your investment. I followed everything to a tee, except I had to buy less than 10 contracts usually, which would not make a difference to overall being profitable or not. He has to roll almost every trade which is where you will lose your shirt and gradually your pot of money is depleted. His “portfolio” is probably a paper trading account so he is not experiencing actually losses. Or,he has a huge amount of money to keep investing. He also is very arrogant and will not allow any tough questions or he cuts off your ability to comment . You successes will not be greater than your losses. I lost more than 50% of a pretty good portfolio in less than 3 years.
Thank you Drew. I was just charged $ 500.00 for this service and I don’t remember ordering it. I’m glad I use Amex Corporate card so I can dispute it. Cheers mate!
Thanks Drew, Jeff Clark is the same….
The service is awful. While the product is real and there is real support etc you have to sit by your computer constantly to get out of bad option trades by making new ones. I spent 3-4 months following recommendations and just barely broke even. There is support but again if you want to be baby sitting the trades all the time go for it – otherwise find something else or do nothing as I expect most other services are the same. There is no set it and forget it trades that you will always make money on.