We’ve got a good backlog of teaser pitches to get to, as usual, but this one filtered to the top for our attention today — it’s an ad from David Fessler for his Oxford Resource Explorer newsletter (currently $79), and the ad seems mostly to have gotten folks’ attention because of a link from one of Fessler’s free articles last week about the rise of electric vehicles.
Which means, you’ll be unsurprised to hear, that it’s about lithium — there are other critical resources that go into making electric cars, from copper to cobalt to graphite to aluminum, etc., but the biggie that always comes up is lithium because of the outsize impact that electric vehicles can have on the lithium market.
Lithium has been in use for a long time, of course, and holds price of place as the lightest metal on the periodic table (the lightest solid, really), and it’s very reactive and has great energy density, which makes it appealing for batteries — which is why lithium ion batteries have taken over in most portable electronics and in most electric vehicles.
That has led to the idea that lithium should become far more expensive, because demand for electric vehicles is ramping up. Consumer electronics are one thing — the lithium producing world has pretty well met the required demand for millions of laptops and billions of cellphones, essentially all of which have lithium ion batteries, but millions of electric vehicles is another thing entirely because of the massively different size of the batteries required.
A Tesla, Goldman Sachs estimates, uses as much lithium carbonate as about 10,000 iPhones…. so if that’s true and 1.5 billion iphones (or similarly sized smartphones) are sold a year, which is roughly true, then adding 150,000 electric vehicles to the annual sales mix would effectively double the demand for lithium carbonate and/or lithium hydroxide for batteries.
Tesla is talking up 500,000 electric vehicles as its goal, and says they’ll be close to a 250,000/year run rate by the end of this year (that’s their 5,000 vehicles/week production goal by the end of 2017)… and, of course, though Tesla is the biggest producer of electric vehicles in the US, it’s far from being the only EV maker — just going by the US market, which is expected to grow much more slowly than China and Europe, there were about 85,000 battery-only electric vehicles sold in the US in 2016 (not including plug-in hybrids), and just over half of them were Teslas.
So yes, the demand for lithium ion batteries is expected to explode. Tesla’s Gigafactory has been the poster child of this as it scales up to make batteries and drivetrains for the new lower-cost Model S, which is supposed to see its first deliveries in a ceremony hosted by Elon Musk on Friday.
If you’d like a great overview of the lithium market, including some analysis of why Chile’s production has not kept up with demand (and a good reminder that lithium production could be increased dramatically), I highly recommend this FT article from about a year ago. Chile has changed a little bit in the past year, but remains the potential “Saudi Arabia of Lithium” even as political disputes and quotas hamper their largest producer, SQM (to the benefit, currently, of Albemarle (ALB), which recently boosted its production quota.
But anyway, that’s just a backgrounder — what is the lithium investment that David Fessler is hinting at? Let’s give you a taste of the ad:
“You see… one company is perfectly set up to become THE preferred provider of this metal to industries around the globe.
“This company is like a sheikh holding the deed to the only well in a desert…
“It’s sitting on a HUGE stockpile…
“Enough to help meet worldwide demand, preventing Tesla and other huge global players from running out – just as they desperately need a jaw-dropping amount of this metal simply to stay afloat.
“Better yet, the metal this one small company produces is far superior to other producers on the market today…
“Not surprisingly, the world’s biggest and smartest investors are getting involved… Royce… BlackRock… Vanguard…”
“Far superior to other producers” sounds a little questionable, frankly. This is a commodity, after all — some varieties of it are a little easier to process, or a little higher value, or purer, but my impression is that the end product, whether lithium carbonate or lithium hydroxide, is pretty standardized.
What else do we learn about this “secret” stock?
“My research shows that if its share price follows a substantial bounce in revenues, this $3 stock MUST trade at least as high as $27… a 900% gain over time… simply to reflect the massive increase in demand.”
That’s making some HUGE assumptions about future lithium prices — no one can increase production 900% quickly, so that means he must be assuming that the lithium price will skyrocket from here. Which would, of course, benefit all lithium producers… but we’ll see if he provides more detail on that 900% promise as we go along.
“… what you likely have not heard is that there’s a radically different type of lithium that’s coming onto the market…
“That’s far more powerful.
“Brilliant engineers have figured out how to take lithium and essentially transform it into its purest form…
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just click here...“I call it ‘ultra-lithium.’
“This refined type of nearly 100% pure lithium is what I believe will be the most promising form in the coming years.”
I think he must be talking about Lithium Hydroxide, which is not commonly produced by lithium “miners” (most lithium, though certainly not all, is extracted from brines, not really mined), but which is growing to be preferred for battery production. Lithium Hydroxide is made out of Lithium Carbonate in most cases, as lots of different lithium compounds and levels of purity are demanded by different industries (batteries need the purest stuff, ceramics and glass a little less pure, industrial lubricants much less pure, etc.).
If this company is really able to produce lithium hydroxide more easily than competitors, that would perhaps give them a cost advantage, but not necessarily a scarcity advantage — presumably that scarcity advantage would go to the chemical companies in China who have most of the capacity to produce hydroxide, though I’m not at all an expert on the complexity or economics (or chemistry) of that business. And, of course, if prices are going to go up by 500% or 1,000%, as Fessler seems to think, a relatively minor cost advantage won’t be too meaningful.
I’m getting a bit mired in this one already, though, so let’s move on and get this stock ID’d for you…
“Engineers at this company have perfected a breakthrough new technique for pulling already high-grade lithium out of the salty muck…
“And its patented ‘Olaroz process’ lets it produce an even better form of lithium…
“The super high-purity product that’s light-years ahead of anything else….
“Mining Global raves about ‘the high-purity battery-grade product produced’ at this site.”
OK, so those are some decent clues… what else?
“Production is blasting through the roof… Quarterly output soared from 492 to 3,000 tons last year – for a total of about 10,000 tons….
Yet its initial processing facility has a design capacity of 17,500 tons per year. I expect production to keep growing without a hiccup….
“… there’s plenty more lithium to be had in this one unique spot.
“This project is so big, the company estimates that it could operate for a decade or more, and even then, it will have extracted less than half of the resource!”
OK, so sounds like there’s no shortage of reserves… are they making any money? This is what Fessler says:
“Operating costs recently came in at $3,500 per metric ton. They’re projected to plunge to $2,500 per metric ton in fiscal 2018.
“Meanwhile, it receives north of $9,000 per ton for its lithium product!”
OK, so that means they should be profitable, assuming no other major costs (like debt service or capital investment). But it doesn’t indicate a 900% rise… where does that come from?
“Based on my research, it shows that the price should rise to at least $36 per kilogram.
“That’s four times the current rate, which means this small company would then bring in around $36,000 per ton for the lithium it sells today for $9,000.
“With costs of just $2,500 per ton, that’s a mammoth gain of $33,500 per ton… and a whopping profit margin of 93%!”
Ah, so there you go — yes, he’s assuming a massive ramp-up in lithium prices. He sketches out the detail a bit more here:
“This year, this company will produce about 10,000 tons of lithium at a profit of $5,600 per ton. That’s a revenue of $56 million from this facility.
“If it reaches the output capacity of 17,500 tons next year – with gains of $33,500 per ton – that’s more than $586 million in earnings per year, a gain of 946%…
“And if its shares follow suit, that could be enough to turn your $5,000 into more than $50,000.”
That’s a long sequence, of “ifs”, no? IF they reach output capacity, and IF lithium quadruples in price, and IF the shares follow those rising profits, your shares end up 10X more valuable. Any of those “ifs” could go the other way, of course, but this company Fessler is teasing is Orocobre (ORE in Australia, ORL in Toronto, OROCF OTC in the US).
Orocobre went on my watchlist earlier this year because the shares had a huge drop — they fell roughly 40% in the late Spring when investors started to panic about the cost of their expansion plans — but I haven’t actually bought shares to this point, and haven’t seen a real rush to get in… I’m hoping for a bit more of a washout in the share price, but we’ll see where things go.
What makes Orocobre particularly interesting is that it’s probably the largest operating company that’s close to being a “pure play” on lithium — they produce phosphate and magnesium from their Salar de Olaroz in Argentina as well as lithium, and they have a smaller Borax business, but they do not have the large global chemicals industry presence that the biggest players have… and, unlike all the heavily touted junior explorers who are trying to develop projects, Orocobre is an actual producer, so they’ve got that little “emerging power” niche to themselves at the moment. (Galaxy Resources might argue that point). Albemarle, FMC, SQM are the old “big three” who used to completely dominate the market, despite mostly getting less than 20% of their revenues from lithium… lately Chinese players who do most of the refining have much more influence, like Tianqi and Ganfeng, though Albemarle has grown its lithium business dramatically faster than FMC and SQM and sold off some of its lithium businesses, and is now really the global superpower.
That doesn’t mean Orocobre is a dominant producer, though, not by any means — just that moves in the lithium price will probably have a more immediate impact on their bottom line than would be the case of the larger and diversified players like Albemarle or SQM… though it could be close when it comes to industry leader Albemarle — ALB as of the end of 2016 was getting 40% of its sales from their Lithium and Advanced Materials division, which was also growing more quickly than the rest of the company (about a 30% pace in both earnings and sales growth). And, unlike a lot of the junior hopefuls, Orocobre is ready to catch at least some of the expected supply imbalance and hopefully higher prices over the next three or four years, before more capacity is expected to come online from lots of different players (anyone starting up a project to create a new lithium brine extraction and evaporation facility today would likely have at least five years of work ahead of them, maybe 10, before production).
So that’s the positive — Orocobre is producing, and if prices start spiking they’ll enjoy substantial revenue increases. What are the negatives?
Well, despite the seeming simplicity of the process of producing lithium salts from brine (pump the brine out from underground into large evaporation pools in the Andes Mountains, wait for water to evaporate, dig up the salt and sell it), there’s plenty of complexity to be had — all you have to do is look at the challenges Orocobre has had in building and commissioning their plant, which was supposed to be producing 17,500 tonnes/year by the end of 2015 but is still down around 10,000 tonnes in the second year since the initial production started.
And, as I noted, Orocobre is also being punished for the fact that they want to expand a bit more, to a hoped-for 35,000 tonnes of capacity, to provide revenue growth, establish them as a major producer, and make the economics of the site work better at current prices… and investors are worried about how they’re going to pay for that expansion and for their lithium hydroxide plant joint venture in Japan.
Orocobre is really sensitive to those concerns, or at least to the impact they’ve made on its share price, and you can see that in the comments included in their latest investor presentations — in the most recent one, to a mining conference last week, the emphasis is that they are strongly cash flow positive after debt service, are paying down project debt rapidly, are capable of “sustaining multiple internally funded expansions” and will only move to Phase 2 expansion if they can do it without raising more equity capital (they think they have access to lots of cheap money from Japan from project debt finance still, which is probably true, and their cashflow can service quite a bit of debt).
The other concern with Orocobre has simply been that it is taking forever for them to get even close to the 17,500 tonnes of production they have planned, to say nothing of expanding the project… so the stock did surge higher late last year as lithium prices continued to surge, but the bloom has come off the rose a bit as investors process the actual dirty and difficult work of starting and optimizing this lithium manufacturing process.
They have had production constrained by a number of things, from snow to the need to tweak the processing plant to speed up flow to I don’t know what else. They think that starts to look much better starting roughly now, with the second half of this year seeing substantial increases in production, so that would be good news — and the decision about their Phase 2 expansion and the start of construction at the planned Japanese lithium hydroxide plant are probably at least a couple quarters away, more likely a year or two, so I would imagine that lithium prices and Orocobre’s production numbers will be the primary driver of the stock for the second half of this year. (Orocobre has production “penciled in” for their expansion in 2020, but that’s certainly no promise.
Beyond that, I’m still on the fence about Orocobre — they’re the most appealing emerging producer that I’ve reviewed, mostly because we know the economics work pretty well and they are actually producing and have that “pure play” exposure to lithium prices, but they are not expected (by analysts, at least) to be growing revenue all that much faster than Albemarle, which seems to be just getting more dominant.
On a revenue basis, the Financial Times notes that Orocobre is expected to earn 8 cents this year and 16 cents in 2018 (Australian$), which would give them a forward PE of about 20 and an exciting-looking 100% earnings growth rate. Albemarle, by way of comparison, is expected to earn $4.27 this year and $5.04 next year, for a forward PE of about 23 and a still-very-impressive 18% earnings growth rate. It makes sense for ALB to be more expensive, they are far more stable and predictable and even pay a dividend (yield about 1%), but for the risk-takers and the small-cap lovers there is more growth potential in Orocobre because of its small size and possible substantial production increase over the next several years. If lithium rises as sharply as Fessler expects, certainly both of them will do really well.
Anything else jump out? Well, Orocobre spun out most of its exploratory properties to a junior player, Advantage Lithium (AAL.V), so they do have some exposure to way-in-the-future upside there (they own 35% of Advantage now). Orocobre’s last quarterly operations update indicated that their cash costs are now about $4,279 per tonne sold, higher than they were in the previous quarter (because production dropped, this is the weakest time of year and they had snow) and average sale price was about $10,700/tonne, so there’s still plenty of nice gross margin there, and things are indeed starting to turn a little bit… though it’s still quite early, the next “peak season” starting in the Fall will be a big test (evaporation rates are much stronger in the South American summer).
Oh, and that “Ultra-Lithium” stuff, as far as I can tell, is just nonsense. I think Fessler is just talking up their Lithium Hydroxide plans — it’s likely that we’ll see the cost projections and more detail about that possible plant, which would be in Japan, in the next quarterly update.
That’s just my take, though — it’s your money, so what matters is what you think. Expecting a huge surge in lithium prices? How long do you think it will take for new production to meet that demand? Will Orocobre finally hit their stride and generate production increases? Inquiring minds want to know, feel free to share your thoughts with a comment below.
P.S. If you’ve ever tried Fessler’s Oxford Resource Explorer, your fellow Gumshoe readers want to know what you think — four stars? One star? Please click here to share your opinion.
Scarcity and exploration & production are not easily forecast. He may have a winner here, but based on past over-hyped commodities (“peak oil” and uranium and rare earth elements) I am a bit skeptical. The company may bear watching to see what develops over time. Missing out on some possible up-front gains is better than losing big-time if the promises don’t pan out later.
Well put, thanks.
Per their last press release ., I think it was this wk, they plan on producing 1oooo tons with hydroxide and 10000 tons without. This to statuary around Jan 1.
Toyota owns 25%……
Yes, Toyota Tsusho is their JV partner on the Olaroz project (and on the potential hydroxide plant).
Musk’s lithium ion battery, and the associated $5B investment in his production facility are already old technology. Lithium metal batteries, poured into silicon chips, is the technology of the future. They are scaleable, ore powerful,, lighter, and cheaper than lithium-ion. Plus they are rechargeable, some the lithium metal used has a long lifecycle. Companies such a sneak and other early stage and DARPA/IARPA vendors are perfecting the technology and its applications, to include super-light and flexible wearable batteries to power other future technology applications. So whereas the mining of the metal is important, the end-use of the metal and it’s reusability and lifecycle in an actual battery application is a much more important story.
Are you aware that it can take 10+ years for a new battery technology to reach mass production, if ever? The development times for production are usually very many years. Mass production of a new battery type does not happen instantly over night.
Also, in 10 years, the existing Lithium ion battery chemistries will be produced at about half of the current cost, which means Tesla’s investment in the Gigafactory will be highly advantageous for cost for at least 10 years and probably beyond that as other technologies only begin to get into production and then start to ride the cost curves down (if they even make it into production).
DO you see PEMIF that’s located right next to Tesla to actually start producing LITHIUM?
One of the elephants in the room in brine reduction to pure Lithium salts is the elimination of Magnesium. In my understanding, this element behaves very similarly to lithium in a solution, but its presence is somewhat contradictory to the lithium ion reaction in batteries. Andean salar resources tend to generally have a high magnesium content. One of the secrets for higher volume production will be proprietary or licensed technology / methodology, (at a cost) to separate Mg. or production from lithium sources that contain very much less co-occurring magnesium (from other parts of the world). I think Albermarl has them beat in relevant know-howat this time.
Molecular Recognotion Technology (MRT) may have the secret of unlocking thismagnesium problem. UCore Rare Metals Super-lig process coming on-stream shortly is a patented process with the power to separate dozens of different minerals. Disclosure: I hold Ucore, listed on the TSX.
so does mgx. see website
Article from Digital Trends below. Is this the “Super-Lithium”?
“John B. Goodenough, an emeritus professor at the Cockrell School of Engineering at the University of Texas, Austin, pioneered the lithium-ion battery technology that is now the industry standard, and now the 94-year-old is ready to push the envelope on battery innovation again. Goodenough along with senior research fellow Maria Helena Braga, lead a team of researchers who have developed a low-cost all-solid-state battery that is safer and more efficient than existing lithium-ion technology.
The new battery uses a sodium- or lithium-coated glass electrolyte that has triple the storage capacity of a lithium ion battery. It also charges in minutes instead of hours and operates in both frigid and hot weather (from -20 to 60 degrees centigrade). Early tests suggest the battery is capable of at least 1,200 charge-discharge cycles, significantly more charging cycles than a comparable lithium-ion battery, and best of all, the glass-based electrolyte will not form the dendrites that plague lithium-ion battery technology. The dendrites accumulate as part of the standard charging and recharging cycle and eventually cause a short circuit that often results in a smoldering or burning battery.
glass battery technology goodenough1glass battery technology john goodenoughglass battery technology goodenough3
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John B. Goodenough, a 94-year-old professor at the University of Texas at Austin, is widely credited for the identification and development of the Li-ion rechargeable battery — which he began developing when he was 57
Goodenough believes this battery technology could be the breakthrough that brings the electric car into the mainstream. “Cost, safety, energy density, rates of charge and discharge and cycle life are critical for battery-driven cars to be more widely adopted. We believe our discovery solves many of the problems that are inherent in today’s batteries,” Goodenough said in a statement published by the University of Texas as Austin. This same battery technology could also be used to store energy in both solar and wind-power systems.
Goodenough and his team have succeeded in developing the glass-based anode, and are now working on the cathode portion of the battery technology. Currently, the team is troubleshooting the cathode issue with encouraging results in small-scale tests using jelly-roll cells. The goal is to produce large-scale cells eventually and then move the technology over to manufacturers who will develop it commercially.”
It usually takes at least a decade for new battery technologies to go from the lab to mass production. Most never make it to production. That said, some of the new technologies are of course possibly promising. Any new production will take many years to become commercially available in large quantities.
In 10 years, the existing Lithium ion battery chemistries will be produced at about half of the current cost, which means Tesla’s investment in the Gigafactory will be highly advantageous for cost for at least 10 years and probably beyond that as other technologies only begin to get into production and then start to ride the cost curves down (if they do).
As always great article on Orocorbre. I am very interested in this lithium market and have played with several other stocks like LIXXF and may add Orcobre to the watch portion of the portfolio. Thanks again.
I don’t understand why Fessler thinks Orocobre is going to be such a star. Please someone explain the chemistry and logistics to us. Is the compound HO added to lithium to make Lithium Hydroxide, or is LH a unique or perhaps patented product? Will Lithium Energy Corp LIX.V be eclipsed by ORL because of the efficiency or smaller bulk of LH, batteries, or will demand in Japan outpace Tesla’s gigafactory and other US EV makers’ needs? Is there room in the world for both products to thrive? I’m long LIX.V
The bulk capacity of high quality cells comes from Samsung in Korea and Panasonic in Japan.
Tesla’s “Gigafactory ” is behind on production promises, but when fully operational will b poised to produce 100% of the cells for Tesla cars, and Powerwall units, as well as “Powerwall” type units for residential solar installs.
Cheaper, less pure/powerful cells are coming by the boatload out of China.
The common denominator is that they all need Lithium salt.
The only patented Lithium chemistry that I am aware of is a non-flammable material patented by privately held Alavo.
Oi, I’m an irregular, and proud to be!
What, only 900% upside? I’m only interested in 9,000% upside opportunities ; )
Neither of the 2 stocks mentioned are in the resource portfolio
Good info Travis’ thanks, China has a lot to offer in Lithium plays, they are growing quickly in many specialized fields , mining, materials and finished products, http://eqibeat.com/top-10-chinese-lithium-stocks-by-market-cap/
This one is located in Qc, Canada and will be producing lithium hydroxide.
http://www.nemaskalithium.com/en/
I WAS EARLY TO THE LITHIUM SPACE AND IN FACT TURNED SOME NICE PROFITS ON BOTH SQM AND OROCOBRE, YEARS AGO, NEITHER OF WHICH I STILL OWN, BUT AM WATCHING OROCOBRE FOR A GOOD RE-ENTRY POINT. MY BEST LITHIUM STOCK TOO DATE HAS BEEN MEMASKA AND IT CONTINUES TO RISE IN PRICE QUITE CONSISTENTLY. I ALSO HOLD ADVANTAGE AND WILL BE WRITING ABOUT SOME OTHER PROMISING PLAYS IN FUTURE IN THE SECTOR. RIGHT NOW I AM MORE FOCUSED ON COBALT WHICH HAS FAR HIGHER DEMAND IN CURRENT BATTERY TECHNOLOGY THAN LITHIUM THAT HAS ATTRACTED THE MOST ATTENTION.
TESLA’S “GIGA FACTORY” MAY NOT HAVE AS MUCH “FIRST MOVER ADVANTAGE AS SOME HAVE REPORTED, APPARENTLY THERE ARE AT LEAST 10 MORE GIGA FACTORIES AS BIG OR BIGGER WOULD WIDE UNDER CONSTRUCTION ALL OF WHICH WILL BE COMPETING FOR AVAILABLE SUPPLIES OF BOTH LITHIUM AND COBALT AND OTHER METALS. THERE IS A DEFINITE “DEMAND OUTSTRIPPING SUPPLY LOOMING AND I EXPECT THIS TO BE A HIGHLY PROFITABLE SECTOR OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS. THAT BEING SAID, AS USUAL FESSLER IS PROBABLY ON THE OPTIMISTIC SIDE WITH CLAIMS OF 900% PROFITS.
Maybe I am too conservative but I only invest in stocks I believe on thorough analysis have the potential to double or triple in a 6 to 18 months window, but this approach has generated at least one ten bagger per year for decades as well as numerous 400 t0 600% wins, so I am not complaining and see no need to exaggerate returns to get subscribers, I generally sell a third of my position on a double and another third on a triple and recycle the profits on a new pick and hardly ever have an outright loser.
Organic produce certainly offers a way to reduce systemic loads of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, but we’re still bombarded constantly every time we drive. EVs are the real hope.
–You say that your approach “has generated at least one ten bagger per year for decades as well as numerous 400 t0 600% wins”. How about the losses? Would you be willing to comment on the ‘net’ gain per year?
FAIR QUESTION! We all know every sector of the market is cyclical, some more so than others, so results vary from year to year.. I have had some years where my portfolio in total has doubled but on average around 50% is a good year FOR ME.
As far as losses are concerned, they are very rare and quite small because I am a very conservative investor rarely putting more than $500. to $1,000. in any individual stock, which I realize also limits my upside. If I had a crystal ball and knew with certainty a new pick would at least DOUBLE I would probably make bigger individual bets.
I also rarely buy a stock over $10. in fact I make most of my money on stocks bought under a dollar on the theory that it is far easier for a .25c stock to double or triple than for a $25. stock to do the same. Of course there are exceptions as I am sure somebody is bound to point out, it all depends what your risk tolerance is and how much capital you have available to invest. If I were already a millionaire I would probably change my investment style to a more aggressive stance.
FOR EXAMPLE, I recently discovered that you can become a millionaire with just %500. starting capital by simply DOUBLING it 11 x by rolling your profits on a double to your next pick, EASIER SAID THAN DONE. Can you pick 11 consecutive winners that at least DOUBLE?
Actually I have done that, which is how I have accumulated over 100 junior mining stocks that have more than doubled but I have never had the guts to roll ALL my profits into the next pick. While I am still not prepared to do that with any consistency, but I may modify my approach in that direction for at least 3 consecutive picks and from there maybe spread the profits over 2 picks to test the concept. It gets a little too risky after at least the 4th or 5th 100% rollover betting it all on another successful pick, it would take only a couple of wrong picks to wipe out your portfolio..
You see lots of ads on the internet that use exactly those types of lures to promote some junior stock. if you are a regular Gumshoe reader then you know what I am talking about;” IF you had invested just $5000. in XYZ. (a then obscure stock, so what are the chances) you would have made that big of an investment) and once you had tripled your money you COULD have rolled it into ABC and tripled that $20,000 into $60,000 and rolled it over into another pick etc.”
Exanples like these are easy to find, after the fact. Of course it would require PERFECT TIMING as well as multiple right stock pickd, and while as they say,it COULD happen, the reality is quite limited it would, but it appeals too naive peoples GREED.
Wouldn’t the price increases quoted kill the whole EV industry?
Not necessarily immediately, or by themselves — a Tesla probably requires about 65kg of lithium, which at current spot prices would be about $1,300. Battery technology improvements are bringing prices down pretty dramatically, which will help to some degree with the rising materials prices. But yes, if lithium really goes up 400% that will bite into margins dramatically at the battery makers.
Unfortunately I lost money with OROCOBRE. Seem to be somewhat shaky on its “legs” at least lately…
Has anyone checked about NANO LITHIUM – CA63010A1030 ???
It’s the Tesla Model 3 that will be released on Friday. The Tesla Model S sedan is the existing model, along with Model X, the SUV.
Did I typo that? If so, sorry. Yes, the Model 3 is the big story because of the vastly higher planned production volume (which, of course, is because of the dramatically lower price)
The “smart” money is betting TSLA goes into the tank. It is a distinct possibility if the model 3 doesn’t meet expectations and with the current price of gas, that may happen soon. Odds are better than 50/50.
Rosie says your all crazy!
P.S. She’s my mule and the only one I ever had that talks. She says that some day she will be the only one that still produces gas and hauls #!!.
As I posted on the other lithium thread, a more diversified way into all the stocks mentioned here, Orocobre, Nemaska, plus the big chemical processors and battery manufacturers is available via the Global X Lithium and Battery Tech ETF which I hold. A bit pansy and tame for most of the small-cap warriors here I have to admit, but making nise steady progress nonetheless. It’s my core holding in this sector which allows me the odd dabble in some of the emerging battery tech stocks like Ucore and Eguana. Stock list follows:
https://www.globalxfunds.com/funds/lit/?download_full_holdings=true
I think Lithium saw its’ best year last yearit has been pretty much flat this year. Cobalt is the will show a production deficit the end of this year and for some years to come. Lithium will have production gaps versus demand for about the same time period.
Where Tesla will get hurt is hurt is in storage batteries for alt energy. Lithium batteries do not have the life cycle of vanadium redox flow batteries. Flow batteries will last 30% longer. It is forecast that there will be a need 40 gigabattery factories in the not too distant future.
There is a company Clean TEQ that is using a proprietary ion bead process to clean water and metals from ore. They have a partnership in China for clean water and project for Cobalt, Nickel, and Scandium.
For more details see the column links below;
https://www.stockgumshoe.com/2017/02/microblog-scandium-cobalt-and-water-purification-cleanteq-holdings/
https://www.stockgumshoe.com/2016/07/microblog-storage-of-electricity-batteries-big-image/
Besides OROCF does anyone see giant gains for PEMIF?
Pure Energy should be a good gainer just not real soon. $PEMIF is technology to produce lithium from brine. Lithium brine to date has been produce by evaporation, i.e. salt ponds. IIRC they have a pilot plant up running for proof of concept. They are now looking to build a production plant. I could be wrong on that check their news releases. MGX can also do brine and maybe a better bet for short term gains. MGX may have a brine project on the back burner.
$MGXMF long
mgx also has oil , vanadium, zinc xyz batteries and silicon. , mg too better play.