This was originally published on June 3, 2013, and it continues to be one of the most-discussed topics we’ve covered during those years.
The idea continues to be teased and promoted actively by Tom Dyson and his folks at Palm Beach Letter, sometimes using different names, so we’re re-posting it for those new readers who might be interested… the idea is now sold partly as a secret strategy used by Warren Buffett, Joe Biden, Wall Street Bankers, and other notable names… but the basic idea and the type of “bank on yourself” life insurance policy they’re pitching is unchanged (yes, I expect Buffett probably has some whole life insurance, since essentially all wealthy people use life insurance as part of their estate tax planning, and Berkshire Hathaway has engaged in life settlements/secondary life insurance investments in the past).
While you’ll still sometimes see it teased as the 770 Account, or as the “World’s Most Notorious Asset,” it’s mostly now being teased as the “702(j) Account” (just another mysterious-sounding number, like 770, that refers to the part of the IRS code that deals with cash-value life insurance)…
…the story otherwise hasn’t changed much, here’s our original article…
—-from 6/3/13—-
“Imagine an account that…
“Lets you retire 100% tax-free
“Is NOT reportable to the IRS
“Pays you an average of 5% per year
“Has paid out, on average, for 121 straight years
“And which, unlike traditional retirement plans like IRAs and 401(k)s, lets you withdraw money anytime you like, for whatever reason you like, and with no penalties whatsoever.”
That’s what Tom Dyson and a few other folks who sign their promo letters are promising in the latest pitch for the Palm Beach Letter, which he publishes with Mark Ford. It’s all about an account that’s been used by the uber-wealthy for generations, and by “at least six different U.S. Presidents,” including John F. Kennedy and FDR, whose pictures grace some of the ads to provide gravitas, to generate “IRS-exempt” income for retirement.
So what’s the story? Well, Dyson calls it the “770 account” to make it seem mysterious (why else, of course, would you buy the newsletter?), but, frankly, it’s plenty mysterious on its own even if you don’t give it a sneaky name. More on that in a moment.
In fact, this kind of “Account” is already being touted by lots of skeezy-sounding infommercials and books whose promises make you very suspicious — they come with names like “Bank on Yourself” and “Infinite Banking.”
That’s not to say that any of the heavily marketed versions of these plans are skeezy, just that their promises give me that feeling, and the numbers and specifics for plans like this come usually only when you’re sitting in an office with an agent. “Skeezy”, by the way, is defined by your friendly neighborhood Gumshoe as a combination of “sketchy” and “sleazy.”
But what they’re talking about with those plans, and what Tom Dyson is pitching for his newsletter, is life insurance.
Not just ordinary term life insurance like most people under 60 carry, though — we’ll get to that in a minute. First, a bit more of his tantalizing teasing:
“Manhattan’s Secret Vault: Why Wall St. has kept this powerful secret hidden from you
“There’s a very good reason you’ve never heard about the “770” account before:
“That’s because Wall Street doesn’t want you to know about it!
“And neither do the big banks too, for that matter. (More on this in a minute.)
“Now, even though this is the investment account The Wall Street Journal is on record as saying is better than 401(k)s and IRAs… the majority of Americans don’t know it exists.
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just click here...“Why?
“Well here’s a clue…
“I just got off the phone with an insider who works in the 770 industry. This person has worked first-hand with one of America’s biggest financial gurus (a name you’d instantly recognize), as well as several employees from Goldman Sachs and other big investment banks.
“And this is what this person said to me: NO ONE in Wall Street has their money in stocks—many of them are invested instead in ‘770’ accounts!
“Now, consider what this means…
“Here are the same investment professionals who’ve been telling us for years to “buy stocks”… and meanwhile… they’re all putting their money somewhere else!
“Ridiculous.
“Can you imagine the outrage this would create if most people found out about this?
“That’s why you’ll never hear your broker mention this investment to you, no matter how much money he (or she) has parked into it.”
We get a lot more in Dyson’s ad about the safety of these plans, and about how the big banks have tons of their own capital tied up in these plans (that’s true, by the way — banks have massive life insurance assets called “bank owned life insurance” or BOLI, they take it out on their top employees and it’s a large portion of their core capital), and Dyson’s reiteration that he has been putting increasing amounts of his own family’s money (20% of his net worth) into these accounts and getting a safe 5.5% yield … and it’s money that he can take out whenever he wants to by borrowing against it without penalties.
So what he’s talking about is not just life insurance, but probably a specific class of permanent life insurance that’s called “whole life.”
And it’s not really life insurance, not in the way those of us with term life insurance policies think of it (making sure your family’s not destitute if you die when your kids are young, or your mortgage has 20 years to go), it’s more of a wealth protection and tax-avoidance savings policy.
Whole life insurance is an agreement between you and an insurance company that they will pay out a certain amount of money when you die, and the agreement never expires as long as you keep paying the premium. That obviously means the premium is far larger than with a term life insurance policy, since a term policy expires at some point — term life insurance almost never pays out, so it’s cheap. You can pay $25 a month for $500,000 of 20-year term life insurance if you’re 35 years old, which is obviously cheap, but that’s because you’re young and healthy and the insurance expires when you’re 55, well before you reach the highest mortality risk years.
Whole life insurance does have that insurance portion, in that if you die in the early years of the policy there’s a death benefit that probably exceeds the money you’ve put in. But it’s not really for that — it’s set up to accumulate your death benefit over time. So if you want a $500,000 policy and the actuaries think you’ll die in 35 years, your premiums plus whatever returns the insurance company can earn on those premiums will have to add up to $500,000 in that length of time, plus whatever the insurance company wants to make as a profit. Life insurance companies do not generally do crazy investing or earn great returns in times of low interest rates, and they know pretty precisely when their insured people will die (for a large group, on average) so your premiums would likely be pretty stiff.
But that’s if you’re thinking about it as insurance — much of your premium goes into building a cash value for the insurance policy, and if you buy your policy through a mutual insurance company (like State Farm, or many others) that’s owned by the policyholders, and you get a “participating” or dividend-paying policy (meaning you get a dividend from the insurance company when they make money), then your cash balance can compound nicely and provide what are effectively decent investment returns that are indeed tax-advantaged. I don’t know whether the 5.5% gain that Dyson is expecting is typical or not.
Life insurance is often used by families who have some wealth to pass some of that wealth down to the next generation without taxes, and it doesn’t have accumulation limits that I’m aware of, like tax-advantaged retirement plans that restrict the amount you can put in every year — for most people contribution limits are a theoretical concept, but for the upper middle class and the wealthy the cap of 25-50 thousand a year across various retirement accounts is a bother.
So the key aspects of this, from what I can tell, are that you would want to buy whole life insurance, that you would want to have a participating or dividend-paying policy, and maybe even, if Dyson is following the same track as folks like the “Bank on Yourself” people, that you want to maximize the amount of savings you put into the plan (these are often called “paid up additions”) to increase your potential dividends from the mutual company and the growth of the account over time. The maximizing and “be your own bank” stuff is all about putting so much of your net worth into these policies that you do all of your big purchases (like buying cars, etc.) by borrowing from your policy. But of course, to do that you have to be the kind of person who can put a substantial amount of money aside for these large premiums as your “forced savings” plan.
And the reason it’s confusing, even if you don’t call it a “770 Plan”, is that these are complex contracts, they’re not standardized across different insurance companies, and from what I can tell you can only really buy them through an agent, whose commission structure may drive him in a different direction than you want to go. There are many, many variations and riders on these policies that I have only seen briefly mentioned, and I don’t know how most of them work — I suspect that they’re difficult to compare across providers, which is a hallmark of most commission-driven, hidden fee businesses.
Life insurance has a reputation for being riddled with fees, and for permanent life insurance and whole life insurance like this, the articles I’ve read suggest that most of the policies start to make sense after 10-15 years, but they suck up substantial costs and fees that mean you might lose out if you needed to try to pull your money out before that. This is a small segment of the insurance business that’s focused mostly on the wealthy, and the stuff that Dyson seems to be talking about is probably better handled with agents who are specialists in this … preferably those who don’t also happen to market a skeezy “secret plan.”
That is an extremely non-expert view. I don’t have a policy like this and I have not researched them fully, I’m sure there are people with whole life plans and probably agents who sell these plans out there in the great Gumshoe readership who could probably explain it better (feel free to use our friendly little comment box below) — all I can tell you is that Dyson seems to be teasing participating/dividend-paying whole life plans as his “770 plans” (and no, I don’t know what the 770 refers to), and they are real, and I don’t know whether they’re a good idea for you or not.
P.S. As of November 2013 this is now also being teased as “The ‘Underground Wealth’ Account: How to Fund Your Own Worry-Free, 100% Tax-Free Retirement” — these “accounts” were pitched in a different Palm Beach Letter teaser ad that was mostly about silver, I covered that one here on November 7.
Please send more info. Thank You!!!
Bob Davidson
The best is to sit down with life insurance agent who knows about this type of accounts. Don’t get your normal whole life or universal life insurance because it is not going to have the same results – it will probably benefit the insurance agent more than it will benefit you. I am in Nashville, TN and have dealt with those type of accounts for years. But if you are somewhere else, send me an email and I can probably find somebody that lives near by that can meet with you – and come up with a good plan based on your age, plans etc.
Also, if you are getting together with your normal insurance agent and he tries to sell you something – feel free to send me the illustration and I would love to give you an unbiased opinion about it. edgar@arceofinancial.com
Blessings
Wow, folks!! It seems like the only person who did the math was Mr. Perkins. Seriously insurance is risk protection not investment. Some of the math is hard, but do it.
Interesting discussion about Life Insurance and you are likely correct. However, I wonder if 770 accounts are not Trust accounts. You can search state of VA tax documents. Their Form 770 is for Trust account reporting. The rich have used trust accounts for generations. Might be worth a search.
A tax lawyer friend of mine (disclosure: I am also a tax lawyer and CPA) has theorized that the term “770” may have been dreamed up by the promoters of the “770 account” based on Internal Revenue Code section 7702 (which defines the term “life insurance contract” as used in the Internal Revenue Code). Whether that’s how the “770” label came about or not, by simply dropping the “2” and then claiming that their Jethro Bodine super-secret double-naught spy “770 account” is somehow based on a provision of the tax law, the promoters can fool unsuspecting readers in to thinking that the promoters (or “journalists” or whatever they are) somehow have some secret “knowledge”, when they’re really just talking about life insurance.
PS: I just noticed that at least one other poster here has already linked the “770 account” to “7702.”
The 7702 reference is to “Modified Endowment Contract” which definition is used as a bumper at the end of the track in our station in building the plan. If we put too moch money into the PUA segment, we lose tax advantgages. So, we ascertain the ideal mix or balance of life insurance and added deposits to achieve the desired result. It is not something that many life insurance people can handle. Call Harris Levy, better email harlind@optonline.net if in NY or NJ if in other states we may have a competent party to involve. There is so much wrong information, prejudice, inability to learn around us that it can hurt.
Dear Harris Levy: For what it’s worth, “modified endowment contracts” are covered by Internal Revenue Code section 7702A. They’re not even mentioned in section 7702 (these are two different provisions).
This thread is a life insurance agent’s dream come true! A herd of unsuspecting sheep volunteering -no begging!- to be fleeced! In an environment of ultra-low interest rates, the whole life concept sounds great to the average consumer because he doesn’t know the difference. No, I’m not a licensed anything, but I have done my homework. If you are reading the Gumshoe, then you have the time and intelligence to do the same. If you do, you’ll learn that paying an insurance company to buy term and invest the difference for you via any type of cash value policy (which is what they do), will never be better for you than if you buy term and invest the difference for yourself. You’re not going to subtract out fees and hefty commissions from your own money. Ask the agent what his first year commission is. The reason you can’t expect to safely begin withdrawals until 15-20 years down the road is that your “savings” will need that much time to regain what was subtracted up front to pay all those juicy fees and commissions. If you are undisciplined and not very knowledgeable, then buy a level term policy that covers you until your liablities are met, and max out your IRA or 401K contributions. A Roth IRA can accomplish the goal of tax free accumulations and tax free withdrawals. Buying cash value insurance of any kind is not the way for small investors to go. The uber wealthy can afford to pay the hidden costs to gain the benefit of creating tax free estates to pass on to their heirs. If you’re not one of them, buy term and invest the difference.
Just make damned sure to die early enough for this to work.
Oh! Forgot to mention that universal life policies are interest rate sensitive. That is, the premium quoted is based on the “assumed” interest rate for the accumulation account. If interest rates decline, then the premium must go up! Some companies will notify you, and let you decide if you are going to pay the larger premium or cancel the policy. others will quietly begin taking the difference from the accumultion account, effectively cannibalizing the policy. I say cannibalizing because once all the cash value is gone, the policy lapses. Imagine you bought one of these 10 years ago when assumed interest rates on these policies was whatever it was; 7-10% or more? Whatever it was then, you bet your bottom dollar it’s much lower today. Those policy buyers are now either paying twice what they started out paying, or have had to start over with a new policy. The reason the payouts are tax free is because you din’t make any money. The insurance company is merely refunding “a portion” of the overcharge already collected. If you pay me $100 today for $50 worth of goods, and at the end of the year I give you a $10 rebate, have you made any profit? This is why the advertising of these policies is closely regulated. Not because the IRS wants to keep it secret from form you. But because if unregultaed, the insurance companies would screaming from the mountaintops that these are the best “investment” mankind ever created. Which would totally be false advertising, since it’s not an “investment” at all. That’s all. I’m done. I’ve given you it in a nut shell. What you do with it is your business. I made my decision in 1985. I bought term and invested the difference. I retired at age 45, and enjoy my days golfing and shopping, and whatever I feel like doing. I’ll still be doing tomorrow regardless of which way you go on the subject. I hope you do some research on your own and crunch some numbers before you decide.
EXCELLENT comment , specially with rate’s diving deeper these days. and looking to stay there for “a while”. People do set it and forget it” as tautedd by the insurance companies.
I’m 76 old and retirement plans have not gone the way I had anticipated. A $250K term policy just expired on Oct. 17 and the cost to continue is prohibitive so I’m entertaining buying a universal life policy of $3oK for about $1500 annual premium to cover funeral expenses. My wife and I are comfortable with soc. sec. and a small pension, but nothing extravagant. My health is very good, no problems whatsoever. Any advice?
Not sure who your question is directed to John, but I would ask first if you have any debt? In the absence of debt, if you have enough savings to bury (or cremate) you without leaving your wife penniless, what is the insurance for? it doesn’t sound like you’re concerned about leaving a large estate to someone that needs the proceeds to pay taxes. Your wife would still recieve social security, and I assume the death benefit of your pension. The $30K insurance benefit would just be a bonus? That being said, if you don’t have long-term care insurance and might leave behind a bill for end of life care, it might be a good idea to have life insurance. But $30K won’t pay for a long stay in a nursing home these days. You need to shop the market place to get the most coverage for your money if you feel do need it. But with UL, you are buying insurance and savings. Paying for both, but owning only one or the other.
Maybe I’m reading your situation wrongly, but I’m Just wondering why you don’t simply put aside the money for funeral expenses or pay for it in advance, and keep the $1500 you were going to spend on the annual premium.
John,
can you convert the policy you had (still in the grace period) to a decreasing term to age 100? Starting the face amount at whatever is affordable to you.
Thanks for your response. I guess my thoughts were based on what if I died tomorrow? I think maybe my best course will be setting the money aside or prepaying funeral expenses. My wife of 55 years is in great shape physically, but is starting signs of memory loss and I’ve been feeling a little panicky lately. Thanks again, God Bless.
John – if you are in good health, you could still try to get a whole life policy, and if you presently have a CD or money market account where it is paying less than 1%, then you should think about putting that money into a single premium whole life insurance. It will give you a better return and the death benefit will be greater than the single premium. If you are interested, I could run some numbers for you. We could do something similar for your wife…
edgar@arceofinancial.com
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please send me more info on this 770 account
Hi Michael,
You may want to look at this.
Greg
http://www.freedombuilderinfo.com
After wading through all 70 posts, I don’t think the question was ever adequately answered as to how these “770 plans” could do what they say they can. I think I may understand – it’s all about accumulating yield on an unlimited asset base within a tax sheltered plan that allows you access to the asset.
You can accumulate tax-sheltered yield on an asset base in Roth IRAs and Roth 401Ks, but you are limited in both cases as to how much you can invest each year. You can’t borrow from an IRA, and while you can borrow from a 401K, many such plans limit the duration of the loan and/or insist on monthly installment to repay the loan.
My understanding is that once you have the Whole Life plan described with add-on riders, you are unlimited as to how much you can put in the plan. The money you put in the plan above the cost of the insurance (basically an internal term-life policy) grows tax sheltered. Put in a lot of money and relatively soon you will have earned enough to cover the insurance premium. The rest of the money grows tax free and you can borrow from it without tax consequences. The younger you are when you start, the quicker the same monthly investment will grow because the term-life component costs less when you are younger. The more money you put in at any age, the more you will be able to borrow later, which is why these plans are better for people who have substantial cash flow above living expenses.
It makes some sense to me, and had I known about it AND understood it when I was much younger, I might have made it a component of my retirement plan. Right now I’m close to retirement, don’t need more insurance and don’t want to commit enough assets to such a plan for it to be worthwhile as a shelter.
Dear Ira Cotton: Generally, in order for a life insurance contract to continue to qualify for favorable federal income tax treatment under section 7702, there is a limit as to how much you can put into the plan. The insurance companies have to watch this closely, and they will refund an overpayment if you try to force too much money into the policy (assuming that the insurance company catches it). The financial and legal consequences (including the tax consequences) to the insurance company (and to the policy holder) can be substantial if the contract goes into “7702 fail” mode.
So what’s the limit? It has to be pretty high or no one would use this vehicle.
I just found a copy of IRS section 7702:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7702
I don’t think I’ve ever read anything less understandable!
Dear Ira Cotton: Yes, and in terms of what the section 7702 limit is, that depends in part on the specifics of the policy. And the complexity of section 7702 is minor compared to many other Internal Revenue Code provisions. I’m reminded of this passage from a teacher of law:
————“Statutes are not designed to be entertaining, or emotionally powerful, or beautiful, or profound. Some writers, primarily adherents of the plain language school, have claimed that statutes’ primary virtue is the same as that of a good deal of expository prose: clarity. But common sense demands rejection of that position. Because statutes are written to effect policy decisions, their main virtue is ”’accuracy”’ in the sense of precisely effecting the desired policy. If a statute is difficult to comprehend but accomplishes its purpose it is a success. If its meaning can be discerned instantaneously but its effect is the opposite of the one intended, it is a failure.”
–Jack Stark, ”Teaching Statutory Law”, 44 J. Legal Educ. 579, 583 (1994), as quoted in: Timothy R. Zinnecker, ”When Worlds Collide: Resolving Priority Disputes Between the IRS and the Article Nine Secured Creditor”, 63 Tenn. L. Rev. 585, 586, n.5 (Spring 1996).
The Code used to contain a provision (section 341, repealed a while back) that contained, among other things, a sentence of well over 400 words. One Code section (section 6103) actually runs to over forty pages if you print it from the Cornell University Law School web site on a standard printer on regular 8.5 by 11 inch paper.
PS: A couple of weeks ago I was actually working a case where an individual (a Texas resident) had tried to put too much into a life insurance contract (in violation of section 7702), apparently as a way of trying to defeat that individual’s creditors prior to filing bankruptcy. (Texas Insurance Code section 1108.051 can be used in a U.S. bankruptcy court by a Texas resident to exempt certain life insurance policies from the claws of creditors.) Unfortunately for the individual in this case, the insurance company caught the overpayment, and simply refunded the excess money to the individual (and specifically cited the problem of section 7702 in its cover letter returning the funds).
i hav ben lokin for this all my life. i neu it was out her, butt to bad it took a life time to find it. so; i will not make it now, but i wil turn my nieces/nephews on to it. and now i will leave my interests to them to make the decision for them. thanks to alls the people in the above komentits/tors section.
Watch the first video on the opening page: http://www.freedombuilderinfo.com
This site will answer a lot of your questions.
You can email any further questions to me at fegamerica@gmail.com
During the posts that I have read I did not see any mention of comparing the 770 to the advantages of opening a Roth IRA or moving money from a traditional IRA to a Roth. I am presently 77 and converted a sizable amount to a Roth in 2010, I spread the taxes over a 3 year period, but the amount invested in the Roth has increased 42% in 3 years. Best move I ever made. Would have done it sooner but my income was too much to do a conversion. I say bite the bullet, pay the taxes and convert. Just my personal openion.
The issue with the Roth is, the downside risk. I agree, pay the taxes now, while you know what the rate is. With $17 billion in debt, chances are, they won’t be going down.
For a more secure investment, with no downside risk, please look at http://www.freedombuilderinfo.com
You can email me at fegamerica@gmail.com with any questions.
Best wishes,
Greg
Please tell me how you increased your Roth by 42% in 3 years.
Don’t know what this person did, but the s&p 500 is up about that much over the last three years. Substantially more if you go back another few months.
Yes, but I thought he might have another of those 770 accounts where the return is guaranteed, without any downside risk. I am aware that the market is up substantially, as I’ve been in it for years. The only problem is you never know when these bubbles are going to burst. As long as the gov’t keeps printing money I suppose we can ride along. Just hope my timing is right, as I’m getting to the age where I will not have the time to catch up again.
I could have done better if I had put my money in SPY but I use % trailing stop losses, not the 25% a lot of the investment bunch recommend but mine are in the 10 to 12% range. I have been stoped out a few times when I really didn’t want to part with the equity and have bought back later on. I also spend an hour a day doing research.
Best. Thread. Ever.
As far as insurance goes, that is.
Would love to be the promoter selling tickets to a no-holds-barred, bring-your-calculator-and-historical-returns cage match between an Infinite Banking pro advocating for the Whole Life/big PUA side, and an experienced Term-and-Invest guy. Let them both make a run at three scenarios — 25 yr old married couple, 45 year old married couple, and a 65 year old married couple, all with US median incomes. I know there are infinitely more variables that might affect the outcome, but you gotta have a starting point…..
Get those “experts” together, Paul, and I’ll advocate for Equity Linked UL. I like my chances very well.
dr. Dr. kent Moors WRITES – “I’ve just set up Money Map Project #1 —my first-ever direct investment deal only for Money Map Readers.”Forget stocks, options, or anything else… Here’s an exclusive NEW way you could turn every $12,500 you invest into $281,000 or more! —Hi Travis, pls advice what you think about this since few readers do like him…thnx much – simsan
I cannot wait to hear about Money Map Project #1. How long does it take to turn that $12,500 into $281,000? Gotta be good.
looks good more info
Are you waiting to give everyone this for Christmas? Or New Year?
I am a former principal, and compliance officer as well as supervisor and licensed agent with at least two financial giants who primarily sell and market life products as investments. One of these was also an MLM. What you say is true. Essentially these products are offered without emphasizing, but usually being able to provide upon request the proper financial analysis to show how these programs can actually be economically favorable. Most often, these programs work very well for those who need to pay inheritance taxes on the transfer of large amounts of assets. There ARE very large annual fees charged, and the programs generally do not become favorable in under a decade of participation. Many of these programs also claim to participate in “upside” in the market, but do not participate in downside. Again, the economics of this remains murky for someone not conversant in financial math. Actuaries design these programs for the offering company to be profitable. They do what the prospectus says they do, but how many read the full prospectus and crunch the numbers? How many note the annual fees? These emotional appeals to “secret” programs, used by “famous” people, and heavily used by “bankers”, should sound suspicious, because it is, indeed, a sneaky way to sell something.
i want info about investing in 3dprinter company
There are so many comments on this post. Most of the ones which have some actual knowledge of various types of insurance company structures, policy types, taxation etc have a little or a lot of information but in most cases are shortsighted due to a limited amount of actual knowledge and, in some instances a keen desire to make a sale. I am a retired Enrolled Actuary, I have headed a pension consulting firm for over 35 years and an affiliated life and disability agency devoted to the needs of the pension plans, estate taxation of some of their participants, sponsors and heirs with no solicitation function. I would be happy to discuss the manifestations of using life insurance for other than strictly life insurance needs. Mostly, term insurance which looks cheap but expires mostly worthless,is best for definite death benefit situations WITHIN a given period of time. That is the reason for the term “TERM” it is excellent for that purpose and is also excellent as an adjunct to another type of policy to enhance the death benefit function. This field comprises enough information required to receive quite a few credits in university on the subject and Gumshoe’s blessed Thinkolator isn’t the proper locale. I will gladly go into deeper discussions with anyone who seriously wants to learn and who will give the state(s) in which they reside and work so that I may limit some portions of a discussion in accordance with State insurance laws (there are 50 different plus DC and territories). In some states I may be able to show examples while in others it would not be permitted. My email is harlind@optonline.net and please do not cram my inbox with anything other than a serious request. I do not have any interest in philosophical discussions at this time. If I am permitted to give you examples it would be necessary for you to add your gender and year of birth.